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Yes we know all that but in this case the informant was her son who is dead and never knew anything about his mothers past anyway

Christine gave her date of birth as Jan 1921 but the only Christine registered for Kilrush in this period was in Oct/Nov/Dec 1922 and it would be breaking the law not to register a child for a whole year, maybe she lied about her age at some stage, making herself older than she was. A christmas birth date may be why she was called Christine, its was traditional to add Christine or Christopher to a Christmas babys name.
She may have had a sister called Mary and there has been a suggestion that she had a sister called Elizabeth who accompanied her to Liverpool for nurse training.

. At this stage my friend is satisfied that she has made contact with her half brothers family but as is only natural she would love to find out something about her father. The only info she has at present is that he was a "Navy doctor". Christine only appears in English records in 1945 so where was she living if she was in England during the war years? Any input would be appreciated.

Marian

The date of birth on the death cert is only as good as the informant knew

My grandfathers date of birth on his death cert is out by three years as he lied about his age for some strange reason

By 'English records' do you mean the ER's for Christine?

'Registers were not published during the latter years of World War 1 (1916–1917) or World War 2 (1940–1944).'

Whats her age on her marriage certificate to Mr Cooper.?


edit---this is a close match.

Name: Christina Mangan
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Jan - Mar 1920
Event Place: Dublin North, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year: Jan - Mar 1920
Registration District: Dublin North
Volume Number: 2
Page Number: 501
GS Film number: 101078 , Digital Folder Number: 004194697 , Image Number: 00322

We know that Chistina was born in Kilrush Co Limerick, this information comes from her late husbands family, unfortunatly Madigan is a very common surname there and searching for a Patrick Madigan (the name she gave for her father on her wedding cert ) doesnt make the search any easier. The biggest problem is that unlike the majority of Irish counties , Clare BMD records are not fully digatilised there are in fact only a handful of Parishes whose birth records can be accessed online.

re the Mary E Madigan who married in 1949

births in Kilrush

Mary Ellen Madigan Oct-Dec 1924
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F19H-S65

Mary Ellen Madigan Jul-Sep 1926
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1SN-226

they do not match well with any names in the English deaths index but she could have lived or be living beyond 2005, or have remarried

for the other possible sister, there are

Eliza Jan-Mar 1909
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBP6-X3G

Elizabeth Oct-Dec 1910
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB5N-ZJ8

this could be the first one in 1911, Lizzie, aged 2, parents Timothy and Lizzie, in Kilrush Urban
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Kilrush_Urban/Merchants_Quay/364242/

there are no Elizabeth Madigan marriages in Liverpool before 1962


on the other hand there is a Patrick aged 17 in Kilrush Rural
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Kilrush_Rural/Carrowncalla__South/363684/

familysearch shows 4 Pat/Patrick Madigan marriages in Kilrush 1905-1924
only the 1916 (Patrick) and 1919 (Pat) marriages would seem likely

I might wonder about this birth if she dropped the first name and added a middle name that was either a baptismal name or a name she took a fancy to
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MN-PYC
Catherine Christina Madigan, Apr-Jun 1921 Kilrush

(not uncommonly for people born that long ago, a family member will have a deceased's birthday correct when they register a death, but be out a year or two on the year of birth)

but it does seem that what you need to do is a search of Kilrush parish records off line


as far as finding information about a 'navy doctor' ... I suspect that finding family members who knew or have been told the circumstances at the time is likely to be the only route, and that by this time any people who did know will be deceased, unfortunately

Yes I wondered about her name, on the adoption papers she signed as Christina Veronica Madigan - I did think the Veronica a bit unlikely (shades of Veronica Lake perhaps) The thing is that it was much easier to change your name etc in the 1940's than it would be today one of her sister in laws thought she had a sister called Elsie which could be a pet name for Elizabeth, not much to go on. As you say its a long time ago and unless there is somebody in that particular Madigan family researching their family tree we may never find out any more details. Ive emailed the Kilrush parish secretary so fingers crossed Ill hear from her.

Just to prove the point about birth dates I only today discovered that my own grandmother always celebrated her birthday on the day she was registered which was 3 months after she was born so her details on her gravestone are now incorrect and she actually died in her 97th rather than her 96th year - she would be very annoyed to hear this!

My grandfather had his birthday out by one year and two days, and had no clue what his real name was until he had to get his birth certificate when he retired and found out he was not actually 'Edward Edmund' ... and was in fact a few months younger than my grandmother, which annoyed her considerably! His mother had died when he was a child and nobody seemed to have told him anything.

Veronica is a saint's name, but a bit exotic, and yes, Veronica Lake came to my mind too :-)

good luck with the parish records!

Name: Catherine Christina Madigan
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: Apr - Jun 1921
Event Place: Kilrush, Ireland
Registration District: Kilrush
Volume Number: 4
Page Number: 218
GS Film number: 101079 , Digital Folder Number: 004194698 , Image Number: 001.

?? probally not her,

If your friend hasnt applied to Uk for her adoption file it maybe worth doing so....if she was born in a RC mother and baby home often the birth registraion was done by the nuns and they often faulted on information.......

??? ................ that is the record I referred to when I said:


I might wonder about this birth if she dropped the first name and added a middle name that was either a baptismal name or a name she took a fancy to
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F1MN-PYC
Catherine Christina Madigan, Apr-Jun 1921 Kilrush


and also mentioned other Madigan births shown at familysearch .........

I mentioned it because it is the single closest match for name, date and place as stated

The 1911 Irish census shows a handful of

Patrick Madigan that could probally qualify to be her father. unless he was an older parent 40+.

Odd she didnt use her full name C V Madigan on marriage though and her age on the marriage certificate still isnt known.?

,,,,,,,,also


a marriage 1942 is also in London of a Christina Madigan.-another one?

Yes that Catherine Christina record looks interesting Christina claimed her birth date was in January 1920, her death cert states 1920 - 1987 She had a regular hospital birth and as far as I know registered the baby herself, no nuns involved. Maybe she intended to keep the baby and then found she couldnt cope without family backup. If we could trace a sister she might have passed on further information to her children.

Perhaps her birth was in her mothers maiden name ,,,she may have taken a stepfathers surname.?

Maybe the adoption file will reveal something.? her age should be on it.

What was her fathers occupation.?

Her fathers occupation was Farmer, any details she gave would have come from herself so she gave her birthdate as Jan 1920 when she married and we only had an estimated age before tracing the half brothers family.Some places in Ireland actually added wedding details to the baptismal cert entry notes as to marry in a catholic ceremony you had to have a letter of freedom from your old parish to prove you had not been married before and that you had been baptised so you had to contact your birth parish before you married

A few Patrick Madigan in 1911 were farmers,,,Clare,,,Kilrush,


Marian,,,,,,a wedding certificate in England only gives and age not a year of birth,
Her death gives Jan 1920 but no date which was usual for that time.

------------------------------------------------------
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Madigan Michael 58 Male Head of Family R Catholic Clare Farmer Read and write English Widower - - - -
Madigan Patrick - Male Son R Catholic Clare Farmers Son Read and write - Single - - - -
Madigan Joseph 17 Male Son R Catholic Clare Farmers Son Read and write - - - - - -
Madigan Delia 18 Female Daughter R Catholic Clare Farmers Daughter Read write - - - - - -
>>>Madigan Christina 12 Female Daughter R Catholic Clare Scholar<<< Read and

was she named after the above.?

This is one Madigan family in 1911.

You can search the 1911 Irish census free on this link

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/search-the-1901-and-1911-cen

most were farmers,,,,,there are 78 Patrick Madigan,,,,,

just to expand on the possibility I mentioned earlier in case you didn't click Marian

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/


http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Kilrush_Rural/Carrowncalla__South/363684/

Residents of a house 2 in Carrowncalla, South (Kilrush Rural, Clare)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion

Madigan James 57 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
Madigan Margaret 52 Female Wife Roman Catholic
Madigan Anthony 21 Male Son Roman Catholic
Madigan Sarah 19 Female Daughter
> Madigan Patrick 17 Male Son
Madigan Michael 16 Male Son
Madigan John 15 Male Son
Madigan Martin 13 Male Son
Madigan Stephen 12 Male Son
> Madigan Catherine 8 Female
> Madigan Crissie 7 Female


and note the naming possibility there too :-)

Yes there are 78 Patrick Madigans in the 1911 census bit of a tall order to track the right one down I must check and see if theres a mothers name given, hopefully its not Mary

well you have been specifying Kilrush, so that is where I at least was looking :-)

78 Patrick Madigans not all of whom would be anywhere in the right vicinity and not all of whom would be having children in the 1920s ...