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Adopted Daughter of Kathleen Arnold

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sarah Report 24 Jan 2015 14:33

I am trying to find the daughter of my Great Aunt. Kathleen Joyce Arnold.
Kathleen lived on a farm in Averton Nottinghamshire, then the family moved to White Post, Farnsfield Nottinghamshire.

Kathleens parents were Joseph Arnold and Doris (Richardson) she had 2 siblings. Leslie and Janet

Kathleen got pregnant by a prisoner of war that worked on the farm.
She was sent to Sheffield to stay with her Aunt and Uncle (a brother and his wife on her mother Doris side )

The uncle was called Donald F Richardson (born 1916)
and he married Sarah J Greensmith in Newark in 1937.
They moved to Sheffield and we think they opened a green grocers shop.
Donald died in Sheffield in 1999

This Aunt and Uncle had a green grocers shop in Sheffield.

Kathleen Joyce had her baby girl in the main Sheffield hospital at the time and the doctor that was tending to her ,( and his wife), adopted the baby girl.

After the birth, Kathleen was sent back to the farm and it was never mentioned again

I want to trace my Great Aunts daughter. We think she was born 1940 -1946 latest.


Pam Report 24 Jan 2015 14:53

EDIT: Not relevant as the original thread has been deleted.


Pam Report 24 Jan 2015 14:54

You should have updated your previous Thread rather than start a new one.


sarah Report 24 Jan 2015 15:45

sorry. i deleted my old thread by mistake. this is all new to me. But this is all the new up to date information

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jan 2015 15:51

you may have started a new thread but it does not alter the fact that NO births are recorded for Arnold with mmn Arnold in Sheffield as stated on the other thread

How do you know the child was born in Sheffield hospital ??

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jan 2015 16:01

how strange when not specifying Sheffield this birth comes up :-| :-| :-|

Births Sep 1945
Arnold Freda Arnold Sheffield 9c 818

Edit this is the one that amends an earlier birth

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jan 2015 16:03

AND !! this one
Births Sep 1947
Arnold Margaret Arnold Sheffield 2d 549

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 24 Jan 2015 16:05

the only way to know if the 1947 is the right child is to buy the cert


Rambling Report 24 Jan 2015 18:57

I did mention the other birth on the other thread, but no response as to whether it had been eliminated.

I hope all the people who posted info on there of the family kept copies!


patchem Report 24 Jan 2015 19:57


That 1945 birth comes up when one specifies Sheffield, and it definitely did not when you and I tried it previously.

So, what a difference 2 days makes....

Try Freda Arnold, sarah.

(And I have kept some of the old thread copied, Rose)

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 24 Jan 2015 20:00

Freda was discounted on the other thread because she was originally registered in 1929.

If you click on the page number she was also registered under Parsons.



patchem Report 24 Jan 2015 20:07

Bother, I was thinking she was another one, sorry.


That is why one should not delete threads,

We repeat work to little value.

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 24 Jan 2015 20:18


You should add Kathleen's name to a tree on here.



JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2015 00:34

I didn't keep a copy either and I had spent a huge amount of time on this, also by PM

Sarah, it's pretty much impossible to delete a thread by mistake ...

the 1945 birth above, being a reregistration, may for someone not now living but not necessarily (but her family might still not want those details discussed here ... not just the actual reg details but the names)

but the 1947 birth is for someone likely living and once again, could we not post these details in public like this? the person might actually not want her personal life talked about this way, whether or not she is the person sought here

does anyone know how long after the war it took for German POWs to be repatriated?

would a birth in mid-late 1947 be possible? if not, that birth isn't relevant here anyway

The aunt and uncle had three or four children it seems, only one or two with a middle name (easy to find at Freebmd), probably difficult to trace them ... is it possible they would have heard any family stories do you think?

two people have Sarah Greensmith 1915 Newark in their trees here at genesreunited

and actually one other person has one of the children in their tree

it would be worth asking whether they are in touch with the aunt and uncle's children


PatinCyprus Report 25 Jan 2015 09:08

The nearest POW camps to White Post are Nottingham and Boughton. Boughton had Germans but don't forget there were other nationals like the Italians also held as POWs.

Christmas 1946 there was still 400,000 POWs in UK. Because the war had been over for a while many POWs were taken into homes for Christmas Day. Friendships at this time were allowed. Work it out, still POWs December 1946 birth in September 1947.

The later birth is therefore a possibility and that birth cert should be sent for..


JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2015 17:19

thanks Pat, that was exactly my question and what I was thinking might have happened (repatriation would have taken some time to organise in the aftermath)

and I agree that that birth may be a very good possibility and it would be a good idea to check it out.


PatinCyprus Report 25 Jan 2015 17:44

I read this thread and became interested for 2 reasons.

I know the area, I lived for 14 years at a village near Boughton, pronounced
boo -ton. White Post farm is now a visitors farm and is very popular with children.

The second reason was a recollection of an episode of All Creatures Great and Small. It was about an Italian POW who worked in the area during the war and was sent back home but it seemed like a couple of years after the war had finished. He returned to Yorkshire as there was nothing left for him in Italy - I think.

I thought you were correct when you offered up the question about the POWs so I started to do a bit of research and I found what I wrote above. :-)


PatinCyprus Report 25 Jan 2015 20:50

Sarah I think you'll have to get the 1947 birth cert as now we know POWs were still in UK after Christmas 1946 it means September 1947 is a possibility.


JoonieCloonie Report 25 Jan 2015 22:50

Sarah, you can use Freebmd!

just click

your aunt and uncle were named Richardson and Greensmith, so you search for births with surname Richardson and mother Greensmith

I believe I put information about this in your previous thread ...

possible children are a first born Hull, then two Sheffield and one Newark, and yes, you have the Sheffield names right.

I'm pretty sure I said I had searched trees here at this website and found a connection ............ yes, here, just click

but that person's membership number is very old I think and they may not still get notifications from this website

and no, if the baby was adopted, her surname would not have continued to be Arnold

but at birth it almost certainly would have been (unless the baby was registered in the father's surname, which it seems didn't happen)

we think the 1947 birth is a good possibility

that info is still here on page 1 of this thread, although I believe it should be removed because it is personal info about a living person

you can find it any time at FreeBMD by searching for births in 1947 with surname Arnold and mother Arnold

you use the info there to order a birth certificate here

you need the name, quarter (Mar, Jun, Sep, Dec) and year of birth, the district name and the volume number and page number, and all of that info is in the result at FreeBMD

the birth certificate will give the mother's name so you will then know whether or not that is your Joyce's daughter

if you do that, you can come back here and just let us know that you got the 1947 certificate and that the mother was or was not your Joyce

if it was, there might not be much more we can do to help right away, but then you will at least know who you are looking for


Rambling Report 25 Jan 2015 23:00

It may not be relevant but I can't see any subsequent marriage that might be the lady born 1947, which 'might' indicate a change of name ( equally possible of course that there was a marriage but not in England or Wales).