Find Ancestors

LadyKira, FBG did put that exact info on the previous page (as I had put the 1911 info) - duplication does just fill up the pages!

-- I'm editing because a page only holds 14 posts and I hate filling the page up with little things
-- The travel date for Evelyn Barnsley was in FBG's info:
Date of departure: 5 June 1915.
I think it was the specific dates that FWH may have been on the Orontes I wondered about, from AuntyS's records about him. The one she specified that I reproduced on p. 8 was:
Voyage Arrival Date: 6 Apr 1915.
So if he then travelled out again on the Orontes, he would have been on the voyage that departed London 5 June 1915, I'd hope.


-- edit again -- AuntyS -- Evelyn was looking urgently for FWH at the end of the war and we're assuming she is the person he called his fiancée at some point ........ have you looked in Victoria to see whether Evelyn might have had a child during the war??


I'm looking at an interesting marriage ...

- deleting it - an Ellen A Miller married in Wandsworth in the 20s but I think it was one born too late to have married in 1912.

I thought you wanted the date

oh my goodness. Just finished talk with person from National Australian Archives. She suggested child migration!!

http://www.naa.gov.au/naaresources/Publications/research_guides/guides/childmig/chapter2.htm

Lots to read and think about.

But this is one area I had not even considered.


I will read all of your hard work tonight. Paid employment is yelling in my ear.

Well duh, I asked a while back (in the posts since you were last here, true) whether he might be a Home Child!

And I can second that Janey! lol

Have had a look at Churches in Earls Court, just in case her was baptised and or his parents were married there.

Found three, St Matthias, St Phillips and St Cuthberts.
(All C of E)
Information from all three re Baptisms and Marriages are available from LMA
I don't know if anyone is able to go to City of London, Guildhall and look for you.

I know that there would have to be some guess work, but would be worth noting Any Frederick Hill baptised around that time (1877 ish).

Any bored Londoners out there?

Tess



I

Theresa (I'll spell it right this time -- Tess) - what are you seconding?! ;)

What's Earls Court??

Ah: "a district in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea in London, England. It is an inner-city district centred on Earl's Court Road ..."

Why that .....?


And now it's your math being bad -- 1887ish, not 1877ish, no?


*My* Ernest Hill's sister married in the Chapel Royal in Strand reg dist, 1875. I have the impression that means the Savoy. Is that actually classy or just happenstance?

Janey,
I'm agreeing that you already mentioned the fact that Frederick Hill could have been a Home Child!

I am mentioning Earls Court (in London) because I thought that it had been mentioned as an area he could have come from (It is near Kensington) I can't remember who mentioned it, or in what context though.
Perhaps I imagined it, (oh, I hope not, I'll have egg on my face again)

On a different subject ... Couldn't sleep last night, so whilst looking for something that is in a safe place, I found my birth cert.......
My birth was registered (four years late) by Officer in Charge Major R.L. Monck-Mason.

Any relation to your Hill/Monck family? double lol


Tess

EDIT Sorry about the Maths I'm wrong, lack of sleep (that's my excuse and it's sticking to me) It should have been 1887 ish

You were right in that Earls Court is a strong contender.


Irony JC is that it was the venue for the reccent Who Do You Think You Are? exhibition in March.My daughter sent me ther as a mothers day gift.

I am here and reading.

About half way through reading last pages.

Found this last night and have not yet posted it.

Australian Electoral Roll 1919 at 39 Raphael St Abbotsford Victoria Australia.

Annie Barnsley Felt hat trimmer
Deborah Barnsley home duties
Evelyn May Barnsley felt hat trimmer

This is the address of his next of kin EB from the enlistment papers.

Do you want who Evelyn Barnsley married in Australia, where she lived, and possibility of children who may have lived in the same area as she and her husband with the same occupation as his. Marriage was in 1924 and lasted until her death. I did not post it because it was going off on a tangent away from FWH.

If he was the painter then he would not have been a Home child. I did not computer "Home" child until speaking with the National Aust Archives person today. She raised the query about Dr Banardos Homes and about searching similar establishments in the London area.

Following LadyKira's suggestion of contacting the Kensington area library people I have received a reply from them. They have passed on my email to someone who should be able to help.

I agree that Evelyn was the person FWH intended to marry and the date of their arrival in Australia corresponds with the information on his certificate of discharge. See my very first post.

Can not look for children born after 1909 ish in Australia. Only way of doing it is to be a rellie and purchase certificate. But, you need to know date of birth.

I found Evelyn's marriage certificate (and death cert) on the Victoria BDM. These certificates have the name of her parents. Nehemiah and Deborah nee Moss. That is how I know we have the correct Evelyn.

I also contacted Search Trees people (2)with Evelyn Barnsley in their tree. This one was born 1916. One reply has come back as no match.

You certainly put a different slant on information. Some of this I will admit I have seen, and discarded as not matching. I am very poor at making mistranscriptions leap out at me. I need to learn that skill.

How do I thank you all. Too late to hand over my first born. You should breathe a sigh of relief at that piece of information. Sincere and genuine thanks!! From me to you, collectively.

I have reply from Kensington borough research people library thingy. They wish to know if Frederick has any connection to the borough.

Strewth. I am going to send them the Kensington BDM and the Rottingdean info.

Can somebody remind me why Kensington / Rottingdean are so interesting? Just tell me what page it's on, even. ;)

You know, I still wonder about these in 1911 (all born in London is the most I can tell):


MILITARY HILL FREDERICK 1886 25 Overseas Royal Navy
MILITARY HILL FREDERICK 1889 22 Overseas Military
MILITARY HILL FREDERICK 1888 23 Overseas Military


The military was an obvious career (or at least job) choice for a young man w/o family or means. Being in the military in 1911, serving the hitch signed up for, and then crewing on a vessel -- not an unimaginable work trajectory. Possibly even being in food services in the military -- then a waiter on the commercial vessel ...

Oh. But his WWI papers say nothing about any earlier hitch. Well ... maybe it hadn't gone well ... ;)

Do the full records for those 1911 names say anything of interest?


(Btw, one of my Ernest's three oral tales that made it down to my generation was that he was a cook on a ship in the military, and his father was too. I know his father wasnt, but he quite possibly was -- what with being a cook when he married 5 years after he deserted!)

HILL, Frederick Single ? 23 1888 Soldier Lambeth London

HILL, Frederick Single ? 22 1889 Holloway London


HILL, Frederick Single ? 25 1886 London Surrey
County:
Royal Navy at Sea and in ports abroad

Page 2 JC

born Earls court and living in an institution 1901 in Rottingdean. This would correspond to the Kensington birth.

Oh right, it was one of those jibberishy c&ps from FMP that make my eyes glaze over ...

He's a *visitor* in the household. There's no reason to believe he's an orphan. Ms. White may have just had all her nieces and nephews to visit for the school hols. It's pretty much a seaside resort place, isn't it?

The next door neighbour is living on her own means, and has an assistant schoolteacher spinster daughter. Various neighbours look like genteel ladies - a lodging house with older women, a visiting governess. The house that FH is visiting has a name, as do all the houses ahead of it in the district -- Sea View, Marine View, Clifton House ... with lots of lodgers and visitors. That's prime ocean view real estate, I think!

(The transcription given on p2 of the thread is wrong, actually. Manor House is the preceding house. The house where that FH is, is St Stephens.)

Hardly looks like a waif to me! What's the attraction??


Oh, and isn't this likely him in 1901?
(or at least: the Kensington birth)

Name: Frederick W Hill
Age: 13
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Frederick W
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
>> Where born: Kensington, London, England

Civil parish: Wandsworth

Frederick W Hill 43 - shoemaker
Elizabeth Hill 38
Frederick W Hill 13
Elizabeth Hill 8
Mary Hill 7
Clorinda E W Hill 4
Ether E Hoveare 20


All right, not exactly the landed gentry. ;)

Where am I going wrong here?



Ta, Fanny! That was a great help, wasn't it? ;)

There are two ways of tacking this.

One is to assume that everything Frederick Hill said or wote or put as an answer to a question is a lie. And try to prove that.

The second way is to assume everything he said or wrote etc etc is the truth. And try to prove it.

If we are talking truth. The military angle.
FWH enlisted in the AIF in Feb 1916. He states on his enlistment papers both his mother and father are dead and he has never served in any military establishment either at home (Aust) or abroad.

This cancels out the likelihood of any of the military Frederick Hill being him.


If he is telling the truth about his father being named Ernest William it is no sense looking for a father called Frederick.

I would be happier if he had said his father's name was Frederick, rather than Ernest.

Now just looking at the info above re the Frederick jnr and snr and father being a shoemaker. The father of the woman FW Hill married was a bootmaker.

Hey I can draw conclusions and coincidences and add three and three and make it into statistics but without that piece of paper which says where when and to whom we are lost.

About page 3 or 4 I listed every Frederick William Hill born in UK in a time frame. Then I sorted them by region and left the ones in the London area at the top of the list. I then started searching each of them to find them in census lists to check whether they had an Ernest attached.

Did not get very far. Did not find any, except one and even that one is wildly improbable.

This is the only father and son combination which puts a Frederick and an Ernest in the same sentence.

Name: Ernest George Frederick Hill
[Ernest Goerge Frederick Hill]
Record Type: Baptism
Date: 23 Nov 1884
Father's Name: Ernest Thomas Hill
Mother's Name: Agnes Annie Hill
Parish: St James Norlands, Kensington
Borough: Kensington and Chelsea
County: Middlesex

Now all I need to do is go find that Annie Hill lived until she was 80 and Ernest Thomas signed with his mark because he could not write.

I have to be gone for a while. When I return I intend to start searching orphanage type records in the London area between 1886 and 1889. Had what's left of my hair cut tonight so there's now less to be pulled out!!!

Well that achieved nothing. Except I found a new site where you can list the name of someone you are looking for. It's called Family History UK. It is free. Well the initial contact is free I have not looked further than that.

http://www.familyhistory.uk.com/

You register the name you are searching and give an email address. They send you an email confirming the details of your search. You reply to the email which validates the registration. Then you search stays on the site for 700 days. After that they send another email and if you don't respond they take the query off their boards. Sounds interesting because you know that anyone who has registered will always be there within a two year time frame.

I have been looking at the HHARP Historic Hospital Admissions Research Project. There is a thread somewhere about it. I have just found a Frederick Hill admitted 11 jan 1888 aged 3 years, for Scarlet fever, an abcessed iliac and spinal caries. (if I am reading the info correctly). It gives an address to where he was discharged. Wonder how I can back track to that address and find out who lived there. My Frederick Hill had rheumatic fever and sciatic rheumatism as a young man. The diseases sort of fit don't they?????

The address is 97 Flaxman Road Camberwell. Tried to find the address but could only come up with a Flaxman Rd Lambeth in the 1901 census.

This Frederick was also sent to the Homerton FH. Which I think is the Homerton Fever Hospital


I am still waiting for my birth certificates to arrive.