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Do you know what connection these two are to your family?


Births Jun 1913
Gouriet Victor D (Stokes) Portsmouth 2b 779

Births Jun 1916
Gouriet Geoffrey G (Stokes) Lambeth 1d 836


The mother must have been previously married, because there is no Gouriet-Stokes marriage.

I ask, because Geoffrey's daughter was the second wife of Martin Richard Attlee, 2nd Earl Attlee. (They married when he was 60 and she was 39, ish.)

http://www.thepeerage.com/p4471.htm#i44709

Births Mar 1852
Gouriet Caroline Jane Hamilton Newington 1d 188

She was a sister who didn't survive.

Deaths Jun 1857
Gouriet Caroline Jan Kamilton Pancras 1b 79

Deaths Jun 1857 (>99%)
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Gouriet Caroline Jan Kamilton Pancras 1b 79



I'm back now

well done Janey

1911 census

MACE JULIA E 1861 50 Poplar London
MACE CHARLES E 1864 47 Poplar London

No Mace or anyone with surname starting with G living with them.

This person is living with them ...

BARTLETT JAMES E 1882 29 Poplar London

Marriages Jun 1894 (>99%)
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Boughton William Charles Islington 1b 418
Brook Elizabeth Grace Islington 1b 418
Gouriet Elizabeth Caroline S Islington 1b 418
Pearson William Islington 1b 418

not elizabeth blanche as she would be too young

Aren't we looking for Elizabeth Blanch and May Caroline?

First thing I did was get a complete list of GOURIET events at FreeBMD ...

IF she married and used her full forename I have narrowed her down to these in 1911

HOUSEHOLD BARNES BLANCHE ELIZABETH F 1886 25 Fulham London
HOUSEHOLD BOTTRELL BLANCHE ELIZABETH F 1886 25 Willesden Middlesex
HOUSEHOLD MINCHIN BLANCHE ELIZABETH F 1884 27 Worcester Worcestershire
HOUSEHOLD MITTON ELIZABETH BLANCHE F 1884 27 St George London
HOUSEHOLD NEWMAN ELIZABETH BLANCHE F 1883 28 Dartford Kent
HOUSEHOLD THOMAS BLANCHE ELIZABETH ANN F 1888 23 St Pancras London

And these could be May Caroline

HOUSEHOLD ALDRIDGE CAROLINE MAY F 1889 22 Edmonton Middlesex
HOUSEHOLD BELEH CAROLINE MAY F 1887 24 St Pancras London
HOUSEHOLD BRATT MAY CAROLINE F 1887 24 Camberwell London
HOUSEHOLD COCKRAM MAY CAROLINE F 1890 21 Edmonton Middlesex
HOUSEHOLD HASTINGS MAY CAROLINE F 1884 27 St Pancras London
HOUSEHOLD RUSSELL CAROLINE MAY F 1887 24 Swindon Wiltshire

So I just deleted a bunch of bumph I was about to post about Geoffrey Gouriets and Gerald Gouriets (one of each in the show and law bizzes) because ... I read the passenger info Christine was posting and lost my train of thought, and thought that Victor was one of the people we were looking for. He isn't.

So the summary I was wanting:

Louis Hamilton Gouriet b1879 Q4
Agnes Amy Gouriet b1883 Q3 (Amy Agnes)
Elizabeth Blanch Gouriet b1885 Q3
May Caroline Gouriet b1887 Q3

are the people we're looking for.

If you know that Agnes Amy became Amy Agnes then it seems you have some record of her that you haven't mentioned??

1861 census - household transcription
Person: GERSCH, Hamilton
Address: 4, Thornton Street, St Mary Newington, Lambeth

GERSCH, Caroline Head Widow F 33 1828 Needlewoman
Chelsea
Middlesex VIEW
GERSCH, Ettienna Son M 13 1848 Scholar
Walworth
Surrey VIEW
GERSCH, Frederick P Son M 10 1851 Scholar
Walworth
Surrey VIEW
GERSCH, Hamilton Son M 7 1854 Scholar
Walworth
Surrey VIEW


This looks hopefull

Just realised you have a better version of that one from Ancestry.
Would it be better for me to delete unecesary and duplicates to reduce confusio as this is a confusing family.


I did qualify 1911 with an IF

Just thought they would be the first to examine. Only a short while before subscription is available

Christine, there's no reason to think that either daughter would have used both of her given names in the 1911 census. Most people didn't. It's more common for people using a middle name to do that, granted, but it can't be assumed.

Hi Janey,Sounds like a bit of a five minute wonder then, O'h well never mind, it's really interesting though and I will have a bit of a google tomorrow, just asked my other half if he remembered seeing any of the films but he said he may have but couldn't remember.......... not doing too bad considering,with the very kind help of everyone I have found out more in one evening than in the past year. as you asked, just to recap, I asked for info on Hamilton's decendants

Christine # 2, I posted the 1861 from Ancestry on page 2:

1861

Name: Hamilton Gouriet
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Caroline
Where born: Walworth, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Newington St Mary

Caroline Gouriet 33 - born Chelsea (unmarried crossed out, widow written over)
Ettienne Gouriet 13
Frederick P Gouriet 10
Hamilton Gouriet 7


btw, this will be Hamilton's brother Etienne:

Births Mar 1848
GOUR* Etienne Hardin Newington 4 4_1

and brother Frederick:

Births Sep 1850
Gouriet Frederick Peter Newington 4 413

Janey, Have both Victor D and Geoffrey G but dont know where they fit into my tree yet, will look into the Stokes side though. Bliney, I might be a toff yet. Hahaha

Agnes Any's name was turned around in the 1891c at the Camberwell Workhouse.

It really gets confusing when the names are miss transcribed, but yep Caroline was Hamiltons sister......

Dont know who the James E Bartlett is but Julia is or was my g.grmother.
Yes we were looking for my grandfathers siblings, sorry I got so excited with all the info that was coming that things got a bit out of hand....

Welcome back Christine, thanx for all the info,I will have a go at sifting through it all next week if the doc doesn't send me back to work

1861 census - household transcription
Person: GOURIET, Victor G
Address: 24, George Street, Pancras

GOURIET, Victor G Head Married M 26 1835 Piano Forte Key Maker
St Pancras
Middlesex VIEW
GOURIET, Martha Wife Married F 22 1839
Greenwich
Kent VIEW
GOURIET, Frederick Son Unmarried M 1 (18M) 1860
St Pancras
Middlesex VIEW
GOURIET, Julia E Daughter Unmarried F 5 1856
St Pancras
Middlesex

I do not think you have this one.

1841 census - household transcription
Person: GOWRIET, Victor
Address: Randolph Street, Great, St Pancras, Marylebone


GOWRIET, Victor M 41 1800 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Juliana F 38 1803 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Victor M 6 1835 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Sophia F 16 1825 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Elizabeth F 12 1829 Middlesex VIEW
GOWRIET, Louisa F 9 1832 Middlesex VIEW
WALLES, Charles M 28 1813 VIEW
WALLES, Mary Anne F 25 1816

Hi Christine, you are right it is a very confusing family, can't work out the change from Gouriet to Gersch, but whatever they are almost certainly my family, it gets more confusing all the time.. O'h for a time machine!!!!!!!!!

You delete whatever you think, I honestly haven't a clue as both you and Janey know what you are doing I will leave it up to you if you dont mind...

As far as Victor Gouriet the actor, there's no doubt he's related.

This is him in 1901:

Isabel Gourist 60 - widow, dressmaker
Victor Gourist 26 - born Holborn c1975 - actor
Percy Gourist 24 - salesman
Edith Gourist 9
Civil parish: Hammersmith

Parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1876
Baverstock Isabel Holborn 1b 815
Baverstock Isabella Holborn 1b 815
Gouriet Victor George J Holborn 1b 815

but I am danged if I can find Victor's birth (under either surname) or find the family in 1881.

Is Victor Gouriet the actor actually John George "Victor"?

Births Mar 1874
GOURIET John George V Holborn 1b 634


Aha! 1861:

Victor G Gouriet 26 - piano forte key maker
Martha Gouriet 22
>> Isabel was a second wife
Frederick V Gouriet 1 Mo
Julia E Gouriet 5
>> The Julia E you said was aunt to your Gouriets

Now, that doesn't actually make sense.

Julia E's father was Victor George Gouriet c1835.
Hamilton's father was Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet - c1800ish?

Eeeeeek.


1841

Victor Gouriet 41 c1800 - professor of dancing
Juliana Gouriet 38
Victor Gouriet 6
Sophia Gouriet 16
Elizabeth Gouriet 12
Louisa Gouriet 9
Civil parish: St Pancras


Aargh. Victor Gouriet, professor of dancing in 1841, *IS* Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet, married first to Juliana and second to Caroline.

Julia E was Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet's son Victor's daughter.
Hamilton was Dennes Etienne Victor Gouriet's son.

So Julia E was actually, believe it or not, Hamilton's niece. They were the same age, but a generation out. Julia's father was Hamilton's half-brother.

Julia E was actually first cousin to your batch of Gouriet siblings.


And Victor Gouriet the actor was Julia E's half-brother -- time-shifted a generation, by a father's second marriage, just like Hamilton was from Julia E's father.

So there you are. Victor Gouriet the actor was Hamilton's nephew, first cousin to your batch of Gouriet siblings.


Edit: I see Christine # 2 posted some of these records while I was working -- but I hope this ties it all up.

Christine # 1 -- there is no name "change" to GERSCH or any of the other things on these records -- these are all MISTRANSCRIPTIONS by various companies that provide the censuses on line. The name has always been GOURIET.

See what I mean?????? Victor G was actually Victor Frederick, O'h hell my head is spinning, why couldn't I have had a nice easy family, but were would the fun be in that?