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I'm still awake. So I'll puddle.

Joseph is Willets (one T) on his marriage to Edith, but otherwise it seems to be Willetts. I'll say Willetts, but I will search both ways.

You ask about Mr Edwards coming down to Kent -- she was living there? So this is her death:

Name: Edith Annie Willets
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1893
Death Registration Month/Year: 1978
Registration district: Maidstone
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 16
Page: 1431


I'm not getting a handle on Caroline, Joseph's first wife, though. There is a Joseph Willetts marriage that could be to a Caroline Baggott in Dudley in 1906, but I can't see them in 1911 or any births after 1911.

This must be Joseph's death

Name: Joseph Willets
Death Registration Month/Year: 1962
Age at death (estimated): 83
Registration district: Maidstone
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5b
Page: 722

so he was born about 1879.

This seems like the most likely possibility for Joseph's first wife's death

Name: Caroline Willets
Death Registration Month/Year: 1950
Age at death (estimated): 66
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 5a
Page: 582

(going by date of birth, of the various possible deaths - this makes her born about 1884)

except that doesn't fit with dying and leaving him with young children.

Josephs first wife was called Caroline and she died around 1928 I belive..ok thats the story who knows in this family, and left him with 6 children. He then met my Grandmother in a workhouse and they left to set up home together in Hatfield near Doncaster.

OMYYYY I didnt read the bit about Caroline.you see how many lies were told to us Caroline was alive when Joseph met Eddith and they were still married it seems.

Yes thats my Grandmothers Death date I'm pretty sure especiallyy as the birthdate is correct too

his occupation was Hewer at the Waterworks ie he was a coal miner

and yes she died in Maidstone. They came down to maidstone before the second war I think my father was 12/14 so that would be 1937/39. Her Children by Joseph were born up N orth

aw I'm sorry , bless you for all the hard work you've put in x

I wsonder if they were in a workhouse?

The timeline I suggested does make sense.

Joseph was still married to Caroline. Perhaps she left him c1928 and didn't die.
Caroline died in 1950.
Joseph and Edith married in 1953.

I don't know whether Caroline's death certificate -- if that is the right Caroline -- would tell you anything, but it might be worth a try! Possibly a child of hers would be the informant (although it sounds like she didn't have contact with the children after they were young).

If that is the right Caroline, she died in Barnet.

There are Willets-Todd births in Barnet in 1911 (twins, unfortunately *after* the census !!), 1913, 1921, 1923 and 1927 -- i.e. six cihldren in total. The last birth being in 1927 fits with your timeline too.

I wonder whether it would be worth getting one of those birth certificates to see who the parents were? You can find all those births at FreeBMD; I won't put the details here. Just search for births with surname Willets and mother Todd, no other details needed.

There's a long gap between the 1913 and 1921 births. Perhaps Joseph was in WWI?

I don't see a Willets-Todd (or Willetts-Todd) marriage, though!



Well, here's a turn-up:

Marriages Mar 1905
Naughton Mabel Alice Woolwich 1d 1311
?? TODD Caroline Woolwich 1d 1311
WELCH John Leslie R Woolwich 1d 1311
?? WILLETT Arthur Woolwich 1d 1311

So that's either a completely different couple, or your Joseph altered his name ...


This is that couple in 1911


WILLETT CAROLINE 1885 26 *Barnet* Middlesex
WILLETT ARTHUR 1885 26
WILLETT FLOSSIE 1905 6
WILLETT MAY 1907 4
WILLETT CHRISTINE 1909 2


I don't see any death for a Caroline Willett born c1885 or an Arthur Willett born c1885.

However, the Caroline Willets death I suggested fits well:

Name: Caroline Willets
Death Registration Month/Year: 1950
Age at death (estimated): 66 = c1884
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 5a
Page: 582

The death was in the second quarter of 1950. She could have had her birthday after the 1911 census.

Births Jun 1884
Todd Caroline Stoke T. 6b 281

(The other Caroline Todd born 1883-1885 was in Windsor and married there in 1911.)

Brenda, in your first post you said:

"we think my grandmothers first child was born in 1920 my uncle"

but the first male births in the list of Edwards-Hewer births were the twins in 1923 in Lichfield.

Which uncle were you meaning when you said the first child, born in 1920?

You also said:

"Fredericks name was on all 5 childrens birth certifficates."

Does someone have those birth certificates then, and can you give the details (names, dates, places)?

Your grandmother was from Gloucester -- might this be that first birth, registered in her surname?

Births Dec 1920
Hewer Ronald J Hewer Cirencester 6a 700

... probably not, he married in 1951 in Gloucester ...

1911WILLETT, Arthur Head Married M 26 1885 Carman At Messes Wellington And Words Photographic Manufactures Material Dover Kent
WILLETT, Caroline Wife Married
7 years F 26 1885 Loughton Staffs
WILLETT, Flossie Daughter F 6 1905 Boreham Wood Herefordshire
WILLETT, May Daughter F 4 1907 Boreham Wood Herefordshire
WILLETT, Christine Daughter F 2 1909 Boreham Wood Herefordshire

Registration District:
Barnet

Address:
7 Furze Hill Road Boreham Wood Hertfordshire County:
Middlesex



British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920 about Arthur William Willets
Name: Arthur William Willets
Estimated birth year: abt 1886
Age at Enlistment: 29
Residence: 7 Furze-Hill Road, Boreham Wood Herts
Document Year: 1915
Regimental Number: 60523
Regiment Name: RE
Number of Images: 15

The bit that says where born is missing.

Married Caroline Todd 11/01/1905.

Children as on 1911 census.

Amy Florence 1905
May Lilian 1907
Christine Victoria 1909

They married on my birth date,but obviously somewhat earlier than I was born..

Well, very interesting. He's from Kent, and she's from Staffordshire.

There are Willett births in Dover reg dist in the 1880s, but no Arthur (or Joseph). And no Willet or Willets or Willetts.

Caroline matches the birth I put above:

Births Jun 1884
Todd Caroline Stoke T. 6b 281

Janey.

Can you find the partner to this person please.
Beats me and I have tried Ancestry

Just wondered if it was Frederick,but prob a wild goose chase.

Marriages Mar 1920
Hughes Edith A Edwards Kings N. 6d 158

Couldn't sleep, so thought that I would have a look at this

I THINK that it is Leonard Edwards Mar 1920 Transcribed as 6c 168

I reckon that it should be 1920 Mar 6d 168
So mistake for both bride and groom!

Tess

Phew, beat me to it, thank goodness. ;)

What I always do is search for (in this case) all marriages in Mar 1920 in Kings N reg dist. (although, duh, in this case it only needed to be Edwards marriages).

Then - scan down the long list looking for

- volume/page numbers that have a problem (they look like 1[23]4 or 1_4, that sort of thing) (if you click on one of them ever, and your browser maintains a history, all of them will show up as red/read links and be easy to spot)

and

- entries where the reg dist is in italics (which indicates the volume or page number doesn't match the reg dist)

That's the case for Tess's entry -- the reg dist name is in italics and the other person on the page for 6c 168 is in Kidderminster. (Lots of errors there -- she's the only one with those details.)

Did you submit a correction Tess?? ;)

I checked the image at Ancestry (usually more legible and a whole lot easier to access) and the correct vol no. is 6d, so I'll go ahead and fix it at FreeBMD.

... done!

... Oops, missed where you'd said they were both wrong, so I checked the Hughes entry at Ancestry and of course you're right, so I submitted that to FreeBMD too. If we both did, it's unanimous. ;)

Name: Arthur W Willets
Death Registration Month/Year: 1932
Age at death (estimated): 47 = dob c1885
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 662

Name: Joseph Willets
Death Registration Month/Year: 1962
Age at death (estimated): 83
Registration district: Maidstone
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 5b
Page: 722

Separate people.


I'm getting the feeling that Caroline ran off with Arthur's brother/cousin joseph, and then ran off from him ...

*OR* that the Arthur + Caroline couple are complete red herrings, they were faithful and true to death, and the Caroline Willets death in Barnet in 1950 is unrelated to our case.


I think what is needed is one of the Willets-Todd birth certificates, preferably the last one in 1927, to see which Willets and what Todd were the parents. Caroline who married Arthur would have been over 40 for that last one, but that's quite possible. The births have a gap 1913-1921; Arthur enrolled in Jan 1915 and presumably served for the duration.

My last poat vanished into thin air (so what's new)

Janey, I didn't submit corrections for theses errors, as my brian only works for a few minutes at a time, then it needs a rest.

just as well then, that you have done so, will save some other people tearing their hair out

Tess

This was my uncle Walter my fathers younger brother

You've confused me, Brenda. ;) *Who* was your uncle Walter??

... Oh okay, on scouring the thread (remember that posts appear in the order in which they're posted, not as answers to other posts, so it isn't always obvious what one is talking about), you must have been answering my question about who this was:

"we think my grandmothers first child was born in 1920 my uncle"

There were 15 Walter Edwards-s born in 1920, none in Staffordshire or Kent, which I think is where we're looking. So he must be this one:

Name: Walter Edwards
Mother's Maiden Surname: Hewer
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1926 <<
Registration district: Lichfield
Registration county: Staffordshire
Volume Number: 6b
Page Number: 728

He's the youngest child with those surnames, so he was her last Edwards child, not her first. I don't see a death for him, so if he is still living I will remove those details. ?


As for Arthur William Willets married to Caroline Todd, I think this is his birth, and him in 1891:

Name: Arthur William Willets
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: St Olave Southwark (1837-1901)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 313

St George in the East, London
Edwin W Willets 34 - died in 1893
Florence E Willets 31 - died in 1891
Edwin R Willets 8
Arthur W Willets 6 - born in Rotherhithe
Albert A Willets 4
Francis T Willets 2
Ernest H Willets 4/12
Jane Williams 28

No Joseph in the 1891 household, i.e. Arthur and Joseph weren't brothers.

I think Arthur Willets & Caroline Todd must be red herrings.

But I really really suggest that you get the birth certificate for the last Willets-Todd birth, in 1927, still. Certificates are absolutely the only way to either rule something out or match it up. There sometimes just isn't anything more can be done without 'em.