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Oliver John Henry Houlton/Offer

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Sarah

Sarah Report 3 Jan 2013 11:56

I would appreciate any help in finding Oliver John Henry Houlton. He is a bit of a mystery to me. He shows up on one of my ancestors census returns.

The 1891 census has him living with George Cox and Elizabeth Offer (cohabiters) and is listed as Grandson. Listed as Oliver Houlton.

The 1901 census has him living with them again, still listed as Grandson. Listed as Oliver Offer.

He was baptised in Etchilhampton 8 Sep 1889 listed as of Enford, Wokingham, Berkshire. Father listed as Carpenter & Joiner. Parents are Sarah and Henry Houlton.

George and Elizabeth did have a daughter called Sarah Elizabeth but she married a John James Harris in 1886 and had numerous children with him.

I cannot locate Oliver on the 1911 census nor find a death record or marriage record for him so any help finding these would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jan 2013 12:18

Well, is that his father called Offer too in 1901, or an uncle?

OFFER, Elizabeth Head Single F 61 1840 Housekeeper Etchilhampton, Wiltshire
COX, George Lodger Single M 61 1840 Labourer Etchilhampton, Wiltshire
OFFER, John Son Single M 30 1871 Hay Binder Etchilhampton, Wiltshire
OFFER, Oliver Grand Son M 13 1888 Etchilhampton, Wiltshire

Piece: 1926 Folio: 32 Page: 2
Registration District: Devizes
Civil Parish: Etchilhampton

Address: Etchilhampton County: Wiltshire

Dea

Dea Report 3 Jan 2013 12:20

Could this be his father, Henry Houlton?

1881 census transcription details for: Embrook, Wokingham
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 1310
Folio: 79
Page: 5
Reg. District: Wokingham
Sub District: Wokingham
Parish: Wokingham
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Embrook, Wokingham
County: Berkshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
HOULTON, Thomas Head Married M 56 1825 Ag Lab
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Harriet Wife Married F 49 1832
Cirencester, Gloucestershire
HOULTON, Thomas Son Single M 26 1855 Bricklayer
Wokingham, Berkshire
***HOULTON, Henry Son Single M 19 1862 Carpenter
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, David Son Single M 17 1864 Ag Lab
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, William Son Single M 15 1866 Carpenters Boy
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Edwin Son Single M 13 1868 Carpenters Boy
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Agnes Daughter Single F 12 1869 Scholar
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Edith Daughter Single F 9 1872 ((Schol))
Imbecile Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Seth Son Single M 7 1874 Scholar
Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Frederick C Son Single M 3 1878 Scholar
Wokingham, Berkshire

Dea x

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jan 2013 12:23

That must be an uncle in 1901. Strangely, there's an unsourced (and therefore unreliable) tree on ancestry that has Oliver John Henry's parents as John Offer 1869 - 1902 and Sarah Hannington 1842-

However, they also have Sarah marrying Henry Houlton in 1862 .....

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 3 Jan 2013 12:28

1871

Name: Elizabeth Offer
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Etchilhampton
Town: Etchilhampton
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Bishops Cannings
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Household schedule number: 22
Piece: 1908
Folio: 52
Page Number: 4
Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Offer 31 Unmarried, Laundress
Sarah Offer 6 Daughter
Annie Offer 5 Daughter
Walter Offer 1 Son
Jane Offer 16 Sister, Unmarried

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 3 Jan 2013 12:29

Sarah,

Have you stripped down all of Elizabeth & George's tree?

....are you missing any children for them?

Where do the Houlton's fit into either tree?


Tracey

:-D

Sarah

Sarah Report 3 Jan 2013 12:29

MarieCeleste - That tree on Ancestry is mine and it is information that I had a while back but I do not think it is correct - it is the only Henry Houlton and Sarah marriage I could find - it seems unlikely though - they'd have been married 30 years before having Oliver. I've searched for a Houlton/Cox marriage too in case it was a daughter of George Cox but nothing has come up. I think the Cnesus Dea found for Henry Houlton looks a possibility.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jan 2013 12:31

I'd thought this is the correct 1881 for the Henry and Sarah in the opening post but the occupation is wrong :

HOULTON, Henry Head Married M 38 1843 Ag Lab Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Sarah Wife Married F 36 1845 Arborfield, Berkshire
HOULTON, Emily Daughter Single F 14 1867 Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Eugene Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, George Son Single M 3 1878 Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Elizabeth M Daughter Single F 3 1878 Wokingham, Berkshire

Piece: 1310 Folio: 31 Page: 18
Registration District: Wokingham
Civil Parish: Wokingham

Address: Peach St, Wokingham County: Berkshire

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 3 Jan 2013 12:35

1881

Name: Sarah Offer
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Gloucester Sq
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Kitchen Maid

Registration district: Kensington
Sub-registration district: St John Paddington
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 18
Folio: 16
Page Number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Annie S. Gostling 70
Elizabeth Gostling 43
Fanny Gostling 40
Georgina Gostling 38
Florence Gostling 36
Theodosia Gostling 35
William Gostling 32
Caroline Leather 26
Mary Gubb 39
Anne E. Bates 26
Elizabeth A. Lovell 20
Sarah Offer 16
William Connell 26



Not seeing his birth registered as Houlton.

???

Births Jun 1887 Offer Oliver John R Islington 1b 22

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jan 2013 12:37

The Henry in Dea's 1881 is still at home and single in 1891:

HOULTON, Harriett Head Widow F 59 1832 Cirencester, Gloucestershire
HOULTON, Harry Son Single M 29 1862 Joiner Journeyman Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, David Son Single M 27 1864 Operative In Paper Mill Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Edwin Son Single M 23 1868 Bricklayer Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Edith Daughter Single F 19 1872 Imbecile From Childhood Wokingham, Berkshire
HOULTON, Charles Son M 13 1878 Page Wokingham, Berkshire

Piece: 999 Folio: 65 Page: 4
Registration District: Wokingham
Civil Parish: Wokingham
Municipal Borough: Wokingham

Address: Cottage, Wokingham County: Berkshire

Dea

Dea Report 3 Jan 2013 12:50

He is still single right through to 1911 MC, but, that said, it soesn't look as if he and Sarah were ever together, expecially if she married a couple of years after the son was born?

Perhaps it was just a 'fling' and they both went their seperate ways, leaving the child with grandparents?

Dea x

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jan 2013 13:05

Sarah - does the baptism give an actual birth date for Oliver? Is there any other relevant info on the baptism?

Also, I'm struggling to find that 1886 marriage for Sarah Elizabeth Offer and John James Harris.

EDIT: Is this it?

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1884
BEAKE Harriet Devizes 5a 155
COX Sarah Devizes 5a 155 <<
Harris John James Devizes 5a 155 <<
Maskell John Devizes 5a 155

That knocks on the head any theory about her being Oliver's mum!

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 3 Jan 2013 13:23

it's still possible he is the result of a previous marriage for a child of Elizabeth & George?

He could well have been 'placed' at his Grandparents when his mother remarried?

He could have just inherited the surname of Offer in a further census, depending on who gave the details at the time?

We really do need to strip down the Grandparents tree's and establish some firm details.

Sarah, a lot of the details you have given us do not appear to be accurate? Can you please tell us where you have got most of your data from?


Tracey

:-D

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 3 Jan 2013 13:29

I wonder if he dropped the Oliver from his name? I don't see a birth to match this death.


???

Deaths Mar 1959 OFFER John H 71 Devizes 7c 521

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 3 Jan 2013 13:39

To be honest, there's no saying he was actually born with either of the names he's had attached to him on the census!!!

WayneTracey

WayneTracey Report 3 Jan 2013 13:50

Root,

I think this is the man you have the death for...?

Name: John Offer
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wedhampton, Wiltshire, England
Civil parish: Urchfont
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England
Street Address: Wedhampton, Devizes, Wilts
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Cowman On Farm
Registration district: Devizes
Registration District Number: 246
Sub-registration district: Lavington
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Household schedule number: 93
Piece: 11946

James Offer 60
Hannah Offer 55
John Offer 24
Harry Offer 21
May Offer 14


Tracey

:-D

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 3 Jan 2013 15:15

Thanks Tracey, you could be right there. I had just checked for John H Offer births on FreeBMD. Hadn't looked on the census.

I think I still quite like the look of that Oliver John R Offer birth in Islington. (Sarah was living in London at the time of the 1881 census) Will have a look at the original image as the "R" might be a mistranscribed "H"?



EDIT

Senior Moment (Again) !!!!

MarieCeleste found the marriage for Sarah (who was in London in 1881) to Harris. Here they are in 1891 (with a child the same age as Oliver)

Name: Sarah Harris
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1865
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John J Harris
Gender: Female
Where born: Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, England

Civil parish: St James
Ecclesiastical parish: Southbroom
Town: Devizes
County/Island: Wiltshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Devizes
Sub-registration district: Devizes
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1599
Folio: 81
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
John J Harris 27
Sarah Harris 26
Ida N Harris 3
Ethel M Harris 2
Ada Frances Cox 14
Harry Weston 21


MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 3 Jan 2013 15:23

.. but Sarah was married to John James Harris in 1884 ......

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 3 Jan 2013 15:39

Yes, my apologies MarieCeleste.

Sarah

Sarah Report 3 Jan 2013 19:33

What I know to be facts are Oliver Houlton/Offer appears on 1891 and 1901 census returns as shown above with Elizabeth Offer and George Cox. On both census, it gives a birth year of circa 1888 and of Etchilhampton. There is a corresponding baptism in Etchilhampton for 8 Sep 1889 for Oliver John Henry Houlton born to Sarah and Henry Houlton of Enford, Wokingham, Berkshire. Father listed as Carpenter & Joiner - no birth date mentioned or any other information.

As for Elizabeth and George, they never married but cohabited for quite a number of years. They had the following children, all registered as Offer:
- Sarah Elizabeth Offer b1864 Etchilhampton married John James Harris 26 Jul 1884 Etchilhampton marriage registered under surname of Cox - father listed as George Cox. Spinster when married
- Annie Offer b1866 Etchilhampton married James J T Bolland 30 Sep 1891 father listed as George Cox. Spinster when married
- Walter James Offer b1869 Etchilhampton
- John Offer b1869 Etchilhampton d1902
- Alice Martha Offer b1874 Etchilhampton - haven't found after 1891 - may have married but no info

George Cox wasn't married before he was "with" Elizabeth from what I can see. George was born in Etchilhampton to John Cox and Martha Unknown. Elizabeth Offer was born in Etchilhampton to Richard Offer and Sarah Hall.

So far I have not come acrosss the surname Houlton within the family.

The information I have given you in the original post and this one is all accurate based on the records at the record office in Wiltshire. I have baptism records from the record office for all of George and Elizabeth's children - (although they only state Elizabeth on them) - As far as I'm aware I have all their children listed as above - unless they had one which wasn't baptised! The baptism record for Oliver is also from the record office plus the marriage information for George and Elizabeth's children that I've provided.