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Help please, I'm looking for my great grandparents

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


MarieCeleste Report 24 Jan 2013 23:17

There is a private tree on Ancestry (the Killen tree so possibly Philip's, or connected) that has Lucy Elliott Mooney as born 1876, Scotland.


alviegal Report 24 Jan 2013 23:19

There is a 35 year old Lucy Cox on the 1911 Scottish census living in Fife.


alviegal Report 24 Jan 2013 23:24

So this may be her. Same one posted by Stuart, I think.

1881 census transcription details for: 13, Anderson Street, City
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 6444
Folio: 14
Page: 1
Reg. District: Calton
Sub District:
Parish: City
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 13, Anderson Street, City
County: Lanarkshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MOONEY, Thomas Head Married M 46 1835 Inspector Cleansing Dept
Strablelane, Dumbartonshire
MOONEY, Lucy Wife Married F 39 1842
MOONEY, Elizabeth Ann Daughter Unmarried F 19 1862 Machinist
MOONEY, Robert John Son M 9 1872 Scholar
Island, Orkney
MOONEY, Lucy Daughter F 5 1876
Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MOONEY, Thomasina Daughter F 1 1880
Glasgow, Lanarkshire
MOONEY, James Son M 0 1881
Glasgow, Lanarkshire
BETTLEY, Franciss Niece F 13 1868 Scholar

James' birth.

spouse: Lucy Elliott
child: James Mooney

name: James Mooney
gender: Male
birth date: 28 Dec 1880
birthplace: Calton, Glasgow, Scotland
father's name: Thomas Mooney
mother's name: Lucy Elliott
indexing project (batch) number: C01900-7
system origin: Scotland-EASy
source film number: 232671


Philip Report 24 Jan 2013 23:26

Hi All, John Cox, age 22 is recorded as a Contractor's Engine Driver (Bachelor) and Lucy is a Laundress (Spinster).

Under the column headed If a regular marriage, signature of officiating minister and witnesses ... Against John Cox (father's name) there is a signature of (I can't read the first name) Macpherson and against Thomas Mooney's name there are two signatures, the first one looks like John Donald, witness and the other is Thomasina Mooney, witness.

As I say I have quite a lot of information on Lucy and her children and a little on her parents. Thomas was an army pensioner who died in tragic circumstances. He married Lucy Elliott in Dublin and Lucy junior was born there before they returned to Scotland where he left the army and went to work for Glasgow Council in whose service he died. Is there any other information I may have that could be useful.


Stuart Report 24 Jan 2013 23:29

Scotland's People shows only 1 Lucy Mooney born 1870-1882
This narrows down to 1876 in Lanarkshire


Philip Report 24 Jan 2013 23:37

Thanks Stuart, this Lucy is the bride on the certificate I have, it seems that John and his family are being difficult to find.


MarieCeleste Report 24 Jan 2013 23:41

Philip - do you have them on the 1901 census?


Stuart Report 24 Jan 2013 23:41

This COX death is the only one that comes up in 1911, when stating Scotland as place of death. No further details showing
Registration event: death

Name: COX
Date of death: November 1911
Place of death:
Place of birth:
Belonging to service:
Ship's name: Toronts
Series: BT334 - Registers and Indexes of Births, Marriages and Deaths of Passengers and Seamen at Sea
Box: 0050


Philip Report 25 Jan 2013 00:13

I'm really sorry that I seem to be confusing everyone and not giving the info you need, your responses are coming in thick and fast, for which I'm really grateful and I'm obviously not keeping up with them. I'll try and answer all your questions.

John Cox is aged 22 on the certificate and he is noted as a contractors engine driver. Lucy is aged 21 and is noted as a laundress.

The 1911 census - is this what you are looking for as I can't copy and paste the whole page.

No Year Surname Forename Sex Age District City/
County GROS
Data Image Extract
1 1911 COX LUCY F 35 KINGLASSIE /FIFE 440/00 002/00 035

Many, many thanks for your help and patience!


Philip Report 25 Jan 2013 00:24

MarieCeleste, I haven't been able to find Lucy on the 1901 census, only her mother, Lucy Mooney, her sister Thomasina, and her son Thomas, aged 5.


MarieCeleste Report 25 Jan 2013 08:28

Just a thought, although Lucy is stated as a widow in 1911 it doesn't necessarily mean that she was. Many women described themselves as such rather than admit their husbands had deserted them.

Off to work now but will look later.


Stuart Report 25 Jan 2013 10:31

On an earlier post you state "On other birth certificates I have for further children Lucy had she states that she is the widow of John Cox who died in 1911, again I can't find any record of his death".

Can you give the information from these birth certificates please - seems rather odd if she named him as father after he was dead, or is a father not named?

Also, who else is on the 1911 census with Lucy - you have only given a reference number - and what are their details?

Could John Cox and Eliza Newberry have married in Ireland and that is why we haven't found them? John could have most recently been an Inn keeper, but that isn't necessarily what he may be found as on a census.

Haven't discounted John Cox junior, the soldier in Maryhill Barracks on the 1891 census as Lucy's husband, despite a year or so difference in age. Can't find an obvious service record for him unfortunately.


Stuart Report 25 Jan 2013 10:49

Closest I can get to an Innkeeper for a John Cox with wife Eliza. She could have had a child mid 1870's

1891 census transcription details for: King Street, Eastwood, Pollokshaws

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12 Piece: 562 Folio: 7 Page: 9
Reg. District: Eastwood Sub District: Parish: Eastwood Enum. District: 7
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: King Street, Eastwood, Pollokshaws
County: Renfrewshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
COX, John Head Married M 59 1832 Wine & Spirit Merchant England
COX, Eliza Wife Married F 59 1832 Wife England
ROBERTSON, Eliza Granddaughter Unmarried F 12 1879 Scholar Ayr, Ayrshire


Stuart Report 25 Jan 2013 11:10

Above family in 1881 - but would have expected younger children to be at home, so don't think your family
1881 census transcription details for: 128, Harmony Row, Govan

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11 Piece: 6461 Folio: 33 Page: 45
Reg. District: Govan Church Sub District:
Parish: Govan Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 128, Harmony Row, Govan
County: Lanarkshire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
COX, John Head Married M Power Loom Tenter England
COX, Eliza Wife Married F 50 1831 Dressmaker England
ROBERTSON, John C Grandson M 4 1877 Ayr, Ayrshire

1871 - 4 Marr Street, Govan with daughter Martha aged 17, all born England. He's a Power Loom Tenter

Marriage Martha Cox to ___ Robertson 1874 Lanarkshire, Govan


rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 11:21

Just to clarify, Philip was not saying that deceased persons attended the marriage. Scottish marriage certificates name BOTH parents and give the mother's maiden surname. It is also usual to note if the parents were deceased.


Philip Report 25 Jan 2013 11:30

Thanks MarieCeleste, I hadn't thought of that.

Stuart, details writen on the certificates of the number of birth that I have:

1896: 7th March, 39 New Street Glasgow - Thomas Holmes Mooney (Illegitimate), mother Lucy, no father mentioned

1898: 8th June, 39 New Street Glasgow - John Cox, mother Lucy, father John Cox, Contractors Engine Driver

1903: 4th November, City Poorhouse, Glasgow - Thomasina Cox, mother Lucy, father John Cox, water pipe layer, living at 39 New Street, Glasgow

1908: 14th March, 28 Strathearn Road, Sinclairtown, Dysart - Elizabeth Ann Cox, father John Cox, coal miner, mother Lucy

1913: Lydia KIrk Mooney Cox, unfortunately there is no image of her birth certificate, but I got this information from the GROS Data 440/00 0011

1915: 4th December, Muttonhall Cottages, Kirkcaldy - Christina Kirk (Ilegitimate), father Andrew Kirk, Miner (Private 1154 National Reserve), mother Lucy widow of John Cox, Miner, who died 4 years ago at Leslie

1917: 23rd April, Muttonhall Cottages, Kirkcaldy Parish - Catherine Brown Kirk (Illegitimate), father Andrew Kirk, Miner, mother Lucy Mooney or Cox widow of John Cox who died 6 years ago at Leslie - Catherine was my mother

On the 1911 census at South Walkerton, private house are:
Lucy Cox, head, aged 35, born Glasgow
Thomas Mooney, son, aged 15, coal miner drawer, born Glasgow
George Cox, son, aged 9, scholar, born Rosecroggan, Cornwall
Elizabeth Ann Cox, daughter, aged 3, born Fife, Kirkcaldy
John Cox, son, aged 3 months, born Fife, Leslie

I did log onto an Irish genealogy site and entered John and Eliza's names but nothing came up, although I haven't discounted that they may have married in Ireland.

Likewise I entered George's name to see if I could get a match for a birth in Cornwall, again nothing came up.


rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 11:39


Births Mar 1902 Cox George Leonard Redruth 5c 178


rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 11:43

Have you looked at the Poor Relief records in the Mitchell Library in Glasgow please?

These records are indexed and often give lots of information and they may well give the birthplace of John Cox.


rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 11:59

Have you found John and Lucy on the 1901 census please?

Lucy's son Thomas is with his grandmother.


Name: Thomas H Mooney
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relationship: Grandson
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil parish: Glasgow St Luke
County: Lanarkshire

Address: 39 New St

ED: 21
Household schedule number: 48
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1901_281
Household Members:
Name Age
Lucy Mooney 59 b. Ireland
Thomasina Mooney 21 b. Glasgow
Thomas H Mooney 5
Mary Petrie 20 Boarder


Philip Report 25 Jan 2013 12:00

Hi rootsgatherer

That looks like the George mentioned on the census, I shall have to apply for the certificate. I have heard of the Mitchell Library but wasn't aware that they held such records, looks like I may have to make a visit. Thanks for your help.