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Julia Matilda Davies's ancestry

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

JeanSD

JeanSD Report 25 Jan 2013 17:37

I have many Davies's in my family, one in particular I am struggling with, a Julia Matillda maiden name unknown, born C 1856 in Swansea, already married to William M Davies (b 1855, Swansea) when she gave birth to an Arthur Ernest Davies in 1877, whose father was listed on Arthur's marriage certificate (1895) as being a deceased Richard Davies, journeyman cabinet maker. On Arthurs birth certificate there is no father listed. Julia seems to have married into a prosperous and educated family, but I have no idea who her parents were, or who Richard was!

Ihave spent a lot of time on census searches,but without a maiden name it is difficult of course re Julia, and I can only guess as to when/where Richard was born.

Any ideas? Interestingly Arthur's wife, Sarah Catherine Davies b 1878 Abertillary(yes that is her maiden name) has a grandfather Thomas Davies (b1814) who was a cabinet maker in Cheltenham, and her father, another Thomas Davies (b1846) appears to have initially been one too, before leaving Cheltenham for the tin trade in South Wales. I so love history, but always more questions than answers.

Jean

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 25 Jan 2013 17:51

Welcome to the boards Jean.

This was easy to find on Freebmd - have a go!

Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
Davies William Morgan Swansea 11a 755
Hopkins Lavinia Swansea 11a 755
Howell David Essex Swansea 11a 755
Smith Julia Matilda Swansea 11a 755

Jan

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 25 Jan 2013 17:54

I suppose this might be her, but you need the marriage cert to be sure.

1871 Wales Census
Name: Julia Smith
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Paul Smith
Gender: Female
Where born: Swansea, Glamorganshire, Wales
Civil parish: Swansea
Town: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea

Paul Smith 50
Magdalina Smith 22
Julia Smith 16
Martin Smith 14
Theresa Smith 12
Alexander Smith 8
Herman Smith 7
Mary Jones 21
Stefana Beard 34

Jan


brummiejan

brummiejan Report 25 Jan 2013 17:55

Name: Julia MA?ida Smith
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1854
Registration district: Swansea
Inferred County: Glamorgan
Volume: 11a
Page: 503

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 18:08

How do you know that Julia Matilda is his mother please? If she was unmarried at the time of Arthur's birth then surely the birth would have been registered in her maiden surname? Also her maiden name would be on Arthur's birth certificate.

Are you sure that you are following the correct Arthur?

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 18:11

Is this Arthur and his wife in 1911 please?

Name: Arthur Ernest Davies
Age in 1911: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil parish: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: 153 Western St Swansea
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 15
Estimated Marriage Year: 1896
Occupation: Green Grocer
Registration district: Swansea
Registration District Number: 594
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 138
Piece: 32773
Household Members:
Name Age
Arthur Ernest Davies 35
Sarah Catherine Davies 34
Stanley Joseph Davies 13
Margaret Julia Davies 12
Thomas Davies 11
Authur Ernest Davies 7
Cecleily Davies 3
Cecleily Davies 3/12

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 25 Jan 2013 18:21

Looks like Arthur and Julia 1881 - I agree, you may be looking at two different men:

1881 Wales Census
Name: Auther Davies
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1877
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Julia Davies
Gender: Male
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Swansea Town
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: 14 Burrows Road

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 30

Julia Davies 30 widow
Mary Julia Davies 10
Sharlet Davies 8
Alice Davies 6
Auther Davies 4


brummiejan

brummiejan Report 25 Jan 2013 18:25

The Julia who married William?? No sign of an Arthur:


1881 Wales Census about Julie Davies
Name: Julie Davies
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William Davies
Gender: Female
Where born: Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil parish: Swansea Town
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: 78 Mansel St
Education: View image
Employment status: View image

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5358
Folio: 98
Page Number: 17
Household Members:
Name Age
William Davies 26
Julie Davies 26
Hilda Davies 2
Mary A. Able 18
Elizabeth Thomas 51


rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 18:57

?????

Same family in 1871 but I can't see original image to check Richard's occupation.

Perhaps someone with access to FMP can check it out (Ancestry showing wrong image)

Name: Julia Davis
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1848
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Richard Davis
Gender: Female
Where born: Shwnd, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish: Swansea
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity and Swansea
Town: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Household schedule number: 132
Piece: 5453
Folio: 108
Page Number: 22
Household Members:
Name Age
Richard Davis 32
Julia Davis 23
Mary J Davis 6 Months

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 19:04

????

Marriages Mar 1870

Davies Richard Swansea 11a 691
Harrison Julia Swansea 11a 691
HUGHES Jane Swansea 11a 691
MORGAN John Swansea 11a 691


rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 19:07

Births Dec 1870 DAVIES Mary Julia Swansea 11a 558

Mary

Mary Report 25 Jan 2013 19:11

1911 census for Julia Matilda states married 31 year 2 children born 2 alive so that would be
Hilda 1878/9 and Christobel Vera 1885.

Maryb.

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 19:14

This looks to be Julia before her marriage.

1861

Name: Julia Harrison
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Harrison
Mother's Name: Charlotte Harrison
Gender: Female
Where born: Stroud, Gloucestershire, England
Civil Parish or Township: Swansea
Town: Swansea
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea
ED, institution, or vessel: 7f
Household schedule number: 245
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4102
Folio: 84
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Harrison 43
Charlotte Harrison 48
Elizabeth Harrison 18
Charlotte Harrison 14
Julia Harrison 11
Margaret Harrison 9

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 25 Jan 2013 19:16

That seems pretty conclusive then Mary that Julia Matilda is not Arthur's mother.

JeanSD

JeanSD Report 26 Jan 2013 08:29

May thanks for all these posts, wow, so quckly as well. I will need to go through these in more detail.

I have Julia Davies (dressmaker) down as mother to Athur Ernest Davies from Arthur Ernests's birth certificate,. where she is listed by the name of Davies but no father given, there is just a blank on the cert for father. Arthur Ernest is one of my great grandfather, who I have found on censuses in 1911 and 1901, listed with his wife Sarah Catherine Davies (whose mother is a Margaret Rees, b1846, Abercan, Monmouthshire, married to Thomas Davies b1846 Gloucestershire; I have the birth certifcate for Sarah Catherine b1878 Abertillary, Monmouthshire, verifying hSarah's maiden name etc. I also have the marriage certificate for Sarah Catherine and Arthur Ernest from 1895 where he is listed as being a tram conductor, and she a tin plate worker.

I admit I cannot find Julia listed on any census with Arthur, which makes sense if she was already married not to the father, and Arthur was not accepted into the family, I am not sure if I have found Arthur or not on the census returns, but I found no Arthur Ernest back in the 19th century that could match the one I saught.

Much of Sarah Catherine's family lived in the same street in Morriston which I understand was near Swansea but is now a part of Swansea, mostly all working in the tin plate industry. I found her family, complete with a few in-laws and other relatives in 4 different houses in Midland Terrace. Sarah Catherine and Arthur Ernest were listed on the marriage cert as living at the same address as each other iat 22 Midland Terrace upon their marriage, where she was with her parents, but on the 1901 census Sarath Cateerine and Arthru Ernest had moved to number 18! By 1911 I have Sarah Catherine and Arthur Ernest listed as being at a retail address in Swansea, with Arthur Ernest as a Grocer. Interestingly I also found Sarah Catherine listed a second time on the 1911 census, with her now widowed mother and some of her siblings back at Morriston, but still as a married person.

On the census returns I found a Julia Davies, listed variously as Julia Davies, Julia M Davies, and Julia Matilda Davies, married to William M Davies who had a drapers and tailoring business, and bearing in mind that Julia Davies on Arthur Ernest's birth certificate is listed as being a dressmaker. Her dob on these censuses ranged from 1855-1861, although traced down the line with the children, Hilda Davies b 1879 and Christabel Vera Davies b1884. William M Davies disappears off of the census in 1901. In 1911 I have Julia Matilda Davies listed as living in Eastbourne with Christabel but no Hilda. In 1901 Christabel and Hilda are living together alone in Swansea. Christabel is quite an unusual name.

I also found Julia to be quite an unusual name in Swansea during 1856-1911 period.

I found a Julia Davies b1856 aged 70 in 1926 on a passenger list, for a ship bound for the U.S.A.

As I say I will scrutinise what has been posted. It would be frustrating indeed if I had chosen the wrong people on the census, but you kind folk may well have given me some leads.

Jean

Mary

Mary Report 26 Jan 2013 11:14

Julia Matilda Davies died Maida Vale 8/11/1913 left to husband William M Davies £1548 5s 7d.

Maryb.

Edit was was the address on Arthur Ernest's birth certificate

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 26 Jan 2013 13:16

Well, the Julia with son Arthur 1881 I posted above is almost certainly the right one - her occupation is dressmaker:

1881 Wales Census

Name: Julia Davies
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1851
Relation: Widow (Head) (Widow)
Gender: Female
Where born: Strand, Gloucestershire, England

Civil parish: Swansea Town
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street Address: 14 Burrows Road

Occupation: Dressmaker

Registration district: Swansea
Sub-registration district: Swansea

Julia Davies 30
Mary Julia Davies 10
Sharlet Davies 8
Alice Davies 6
Auther Davies 4

brummiejan

brummiejan Report 26 Jan 2013 13:19

Marriages Mar 1870 (>99%)
Davies Richard Swansea 11a 691
Harrison Julia Swansea 11a 691
HUGHES Jane Swansea 11a 691
MORGAN John Swansea 11a 691

Mary

Mary Report 26 Jan 2013 13:19

1911 11,Oxford Street Swansea
Julia Davies born Stroud married shopkeeper.
On her own no mention of husband or children.
Postcode for this address SA1 3JW.

1911 153, Western St Swansea
Arthur Ernest Davies Greengrocer
wife and children
Postcode for number 154 is SA1 3JY
The 2 address's are very close to each other.

MaryJulia Davies 1869/70 married John Herbert Marchant in 1888.

1891Census.
Mary Julia Marchant and husband have
Charlotte H Davies Mary's sister with them.

Charlotte Harriett Davies born 1872/3.

I haven't found Alice or Arthur Ernest as yet in 1891,
but its looking like Richard Davies who married Julia Harrison is the correct family as on 1871/1881 census.

Maryb.

Dea

Dea Report 26 Jan 2013 13:23

I agree Jan (and Mary) , AND the 1871 posted by Rootgatherer (at 18.57) seems to confirm it as she was then married to Richard who was a cabinet maker !!!

Dea x