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Arthur (Lewis) Jones went to America.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

mgnv

mgnv Report 12 Mar 2014 01:42

To get a US record, I'ld first go to http://www.cyndislist.com/us/ then pick the state and proceed thence.

Chinchilla was abt 5km N of Scranton - both are in Lackawanna Co in the NE corner of PA, abt 200km N of Philadelphia which is in the SE corner of PA.

There is a Price St in Scranton - 1118 seems to be half a block W of Main St.
Check out https://maps.google.com/

Frances

Frances Report 11 Mar 2014 23:02

Back again. Fast forward one year and I am about to travel to DC and Philadelphia to visit the graves of David T. Jones in Fort Lincoln DC and Arthur in Arlington
As I am now making the journey I am wondering if there are any buildings connected with my family history which I can visit and I have a few more questions.
1. Spencer Curwen Jones was naturalised on the 28th May 1918 Court - Middle district of Pennsylvania. He lived at 1118 Price St. Can anyone tell me if this is Philadelphia or Scranton and is the building still in existence?

2. Spencer Curwen married his wife Alice (possibly nee Davies also from Wales)in about 1915-1917. I have a note that this was in Philadelphia but I don't know where I got this note from or whether it is accurate. Can anyone point me to any repository of marriage records which may help?

3. In the same vein my maternal great-grandmother was born in Philadelphia in 1883 in an area called Twaddles Court which no longer exists.Despite the fact that there was a large Welsh community in Pennsylvania then there is little information about now.
The family were very likely to have christened their daughter and I would love to vist the place of worship where that happened. Are there baptism records held any where accessible on line?
Many thanks to anyone who may read this and be able to help

Frances

Frances Report 17 Mar 2013 19:06

Looking for Lloyd has taken me in another direction(although I'm no further forward in respect of him than I was).
I will come back .
Thank you all

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Mar 2013 11:39

Frances, on the arrival manifest of 1913 whoever filled the form in wrote Spencer's name directly underneath Louisa's, they must then have realised there was a Lloyd Jones to insert so they've crossed out Spencer's name and then written in Lloyd, they've then put Spencer below that. That's how the confusion has arisen.

David's draft may simply have meant that he had two living children, Lloyd may have died.

Personally (but I may be wrong), I agree you may be on a wild goose chase with Griffith Jones but does no harm to pursue even if to eliminate for peace of mind.

The Lloyd S Jones in NY 1915 was the son of a David S and Sarah J Jones, all born in the US.

Frances

Frances Report 16 Mar 2013 10:53

O.K. I'm persuaded that it WAS the same Louisa and so Lloyd was a new- born son of David. However the only birth ref I can find in Carmarthen (assuming she went home to be with her Mum for the birth ) is for a D. Lloyd Jones for Oct/Nov/Dec 1912. This could well be David Lloyd Jones (named after Dad) so why on the Ellis Island extract do they call him Lloyd Spencer? May not be important- but it has at least drawn me to the conclusion that he WAS Louisa and David's son.
I wonder who cared for Minnie and Arthur ( mentioned on the ship manifest of 1910) whilst Loiusa returned to Wales to have Arthur?
Whatever the answer to that and it is unlikely that we'll ever know, I want to know what happened to Lloyd as until now I thought David and Louisa only had 2 children - Minnie and Arthur. David's draft information in 1917 says that he has two children and we know that Minnie and Arthur lived to a good age.
In 1915 there is a Lloyd S. Jones shown in the census in NY State. Aged 2 Binghampton Ward Broome NY. Can't find David or Louisa there. It says that further details are on ancestry.com . Does anyone have access to this? I think it likely that Lloyd dies before 1917.
Thank you mgnv- the address has changed to www.philabar.org. Really interesting site- so many Welsh names amongst the "greats". I agree with the above that Griffith was probably just a spare Jones on the same ship but I'll keep it in mind and pursue the question with the Philadelphia Bar ( and also with the Law Society in London.)
As a matter of interest , have you any idea how old someone would have needed to be in order to be a qualified attorney in 1913?. I see reference further back in the Philadelphia list to people qualifying at 17.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 16 Mar 2013 09:29

Tend to agree with Alviegal that it was just someone of the same surname on that ship.

I've looked for Griffith Jones' travelling back and forth across the Atlantic and there were quite a lot born around the same time, including a marine engineer, a housewife, an electrician, a painter .....

mgnv

mgnv Report 16 Mar 2013 02:45

Like the UK, there is no national set of laws - each state/country has its own set, supplemented by some federal/national laws. So to practise law in some state, you must have a licence (or some equivalent word) from that state's Bar Association.

Google them - e.g., here's PA: http://www.pabar.org/

alviegal

alviegal Report 15 Mar 2013 22:10

He was born in Carmarthen but I'm finding it difficult to find anything at all.

Maybe Griffith Jones was just on the same ship and was not actually related?

Frances

Frances Report 15 Mar 2013 21:55

Accepting what you say, where was Lloyd born in 1912? In 1913 when he was 11 months the family lived in Chincilla Pa.
Can anyone tell me whether there is a Law Society of North America which holds records of Attorneys and to which I can apply for info about griffith jones?
I have considered whether he is an American attorney or a Solicitor from the U.K. who just answered " attorney" when asked in the States what his work was.
With thanks

alviegal

alviegal Report 15 Mar 2013 21:09

This may help a bit. The record on fmp has LLoyd as 11 months old not 11.

Britain: outbound passenger lists leaving UK 1890-1960 - person transcript
Print Close
Name: Lloyd JONES
Date of departure: 25 October 1913
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination port: New York
Destination country: USA
Date of Birth: 1913 (calculated from age)
Age: 11 Months
Marital Status:
Sex: Male
Occupation: Infant


MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 15 Mar 2013 19:04

Alviegal, my apologies - I misread the post and didn't realise the different dates.

But - on the 1913 list Louisa is 28, not 38 so I think it IS the same Louisa.

But who is Lloyd? Where Louisa is going to her husband in Chinchilla for him it says father and ditto for address so he must be their child?

Frances

Frances Report 15 Mar 2013 17:52

It's a different Louisa. David's wife Louisa was born around 1886 and so would be 27 in 1913. She didn't have a son Lloyd
She must either be a wife to one of Thomas's brother's whom I haven't yet tracked down ( the remaining brothers are David born in 1850 0r William born in 1866) or otherwise a relative through Spencer's Mother. I think that this is more likely as Spencer's mother's maiden name was Lloyd and she has called her son Lloyd. It would also explain why David and Spencer left for the States if there was a family member there.
I need to trace this person. And who is Griffith Jones the attorney? I don't think that there were any attorneys in the family at that time.

alviegal

alviegal Report 15 Mar 2013 11:03

MC, if I read things correctly, you found the first record for Spencer, Louisa and Minnie emigrating in 1910.
Spencer and Louisa have returned to Wales and then returned to US with Lloyd in 1913.

Liz :-)

mgnv

mgnv Report 15 Mar 2013 06:16

MC's post said Spencer's dob=17/4/1889, but

Births Jun 1890 (>99%)
Jones Spencer Curwen Carmarthen 11a 1010

I'll believe the 17/4 bit, but he lied abt his age, it seems.


Maybe:
Marriages Dec 1876 (>99%)
DAVIES David Carmarthen 11a 1162
JONES Ruth Carmarthen 11a 1162
JONES Thomas Carmarthen 11a 1162
LLOYD Catherine Carmarthen 11a 1162



1891 Wales Census Transcription
Street:16 BRIDGE STREET
Parish:CARMARTHEN ST PETER
Town:CARMARTHEN
City:CARMARTHEN
County:Carmarthenshire
Country:WALES
Ecclesiastical District:ST PETER
Municipal Ward:EASTERN
Parliamentary Borough:CARMARTHEN & LLANELLY
Registration District:CARMARTHEN
Registration Sub-District 3A Carmarthen
Enumeration District:4
Archive Reference:RG12 Piece Number:4517 Folio:88 Page:6 -> Folio:89 Page:7

T CAERALAND JONES 1857 34 Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire HEAD M Tailor
CATHERINE JONES 1854 37 Conwil, Carmarthenshire WIFE M
D DANIEL JONES 1878 13 Llanddarog, Carmarthenshire SON Scholar
LLOYD E JONES 1879 12 Llanddarog, Carmarthenshire SON Scholar
HERBERT SYDNEY JONES 1881 10 Llanddarog, Carmarthenshire SON Scholar
ELENOR ANNE JONES 1883 8 Carmarthen St Peters DAUGHTER Scholar
JOHN LEWIS JONES 1885 6 Carmarthen SON Scholar
MARY MATILDA JONES 1887 4 Carmarthen St Peters DAUGHTER
WILLIE THOMAS JONES 1889 2 Carmarthen St Peters SON
SPENCER CARVER JONES 1891 0[11m] Carmarthen St Peters SON
EDWIN JONES 1877 14 Llandefeilog, Carmarthenshire APPRENTICE S Apprentice Tailor


Can't find them in 1920

1930 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/X79Q-BXY
Head Spencer S Jones M 38 Wales
Wife Alice Jones F 30 Wales
Daughter Irene Jones F 13 Pennsylvania
Son William Jones M 9 Missouri

Magnify 4 clicks, then save image
http://archive.org/stream/michigancensus00reel1038#page/n1080/mode/1up
[addy=3139 Harrison Ave, Detroit, Wayne Co, MI]

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 14 Mar 2013 23:31

Yes, sorry Frances, it was on the 10 February on page 2.

Frances

Frances Report 14 Mar 2013 23:20

MarieCeleste- I can't find an entry for 28th Feb. The last one before tonight was12th Feb?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 14 Mar 2013 23:06

Frances, the immigration record that Alviegal posted was the same one that I posted 28 February - Louisa was the wife of David Thomas Jones. They were the parents of Arthur who was the original subject of your query.

Frances

Frances Report 14 Mar 2013 22:18

Wow! You've come up trumps once more.
Aberdeen is in Scotland and I suspect that the person writing down the information may just have written down what he thought he heard and maybe a name he was familiar with. If it was Wales (and she is mentioned as having been born in Wales)she may be from Aberdare. That is the place name which most closely resembles Aberdeen in Wales.
The Ellis Island extract refers to Myrtle- this is Myrtle Hill in Maesybont, the house next to the chapel where many of the family are buried. I don't know this Louisa though but that is another avenue to explore. Similarly Lloyd and Griffith Jones. This is definitely the correct Spencer though -by refernce to his father Thomas Jones. This also answers my 2nd question as to where Thomas was living at the time of the 1911 census. I just don't know why I can't find him on it.
I also think that the death record is probably correct. When I was searching the American records over the past few nights I noticed that the name Spencer was very unusual. Where the second name was given as Curwen it was unique!
I have a note from all the records I have looked at that Spencer and Alice may have married in 1917 in Philadelphia but I don't know where I got this information from! From the census information she would only have been 9 years old if she emigrated in 1910 so unless they returned to Wales to marry then it took place in the States.

alviegal

alviegal Report 14 Mar 2013 21:02

Is this him again? From http://www.ellisisland.org


First Name: Spencer
Last Name: Jones
Ethnicity: Great Britain, Welsh
Last Place of Residence: Carmanthen, Wales
Date of Arrival: Oct 31, 1913
Age at Arrival: 23Y Gender: M Marital Status: S
Ship of Travel: Lusitania
Port of Departure: Liverpool
Manifest Line Number: 0017

He is with Louisa Jones 38 and Lloyd, her son 11 and is described as cousin. He is a carpenter and his father is Thomas Jones of Bridge Street, Carmarthen. Louisa has a friend, Mrs Jones, Myrtle ??, Nantyandy ?, Carmarthen.
Louisa was born in Llanarthy and was going to her husband in Chinchilla, Pa.


EDIT Sorry, Louisa is 28. Thanks MC.


UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about Spencer C Jones
Name: Spencer C Jones
Birth Date: abt 1891
Age: 22
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 5 Sep 1913
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Ship Name: Cedric
Search Ship Database: View the 'Cedric' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: White Star Dominion Line
Official Number: 115354


There is a Griffith Jones 28, attorney also travelling. No idea if he is connected or not.

alviegal

alviegal Report 14 Mar 2013 20:34

He was 25 and she was 17 when they married. Both from South Wales and both emigrated in 1910.


1930 United States Federal Census about William Jones
Name: William Jones
Gender: Male
Birth Year: abt 1921
Birthplace: Missouri
Race: White
Home in 1930: Detroit, Wayne, Michigan
View Map
Marital Status: Single
Relation to Head of House: Son
Father's Name: Spencer S Jones
Father's Birthplace: Wales
Mother's name: Alice Jones
Mother's Birthplace: Wales
Occupation:

Education:

Military service:

Rent/home value:

Age at first marriage:

Parents' birthplace:

View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Spencer S Jones 38, pressman
Alice Jones 30
Irene Jones 13
William Jones 9