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I've been researching for what seems for ever trying to find / confirm details of 2nd Grt Grandmother's Parents.
My 2nd Grt Grandmother is: Clara Amelia Cox b. 1846 Westminster, m.1919 Islington to David Beazley, d.1919 Islington

Her father: John Cox - all I know about him is his name which was taken from Clara and David's marriage details - no date or place of birth known. m. 1845 to Eleanor Jones - info given to me by another FH researcher but I can't confirm details

Her mother: Eleanor Jones b.1824 Hungerford, m. 1845 London John Cox (info given to me by another FH researcher but I can't confirm details - but can confirm names on 1851 and 1861 census), m. 1866 Shoreditch William Brown (again, info given to be by another FH researcher but I can't seem to confirm detail - only those on 1871 and 1881 census). She also appears to have another daughter possibly illegitimately Sarah Ann Jones b. 1841 d. 1933

I may be completely completely off track here ... but, the information seems to stack up - I just can't find the data to confirm it.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated - many thanks in advance
Michelle

Sarah Ann Jones is her Niece ?

1851

RG number: HO107
Piece: 1701
Folio: 373
Page: 12
Reg. District: Barnet
Sub District: Finchley
Parish: Finchley
Enum. District: 2B
Ecclesiastical District: St John's
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Great North Road, Finchley
County: Middlesex


COX, Ellena Wife Married F 26 1825 Laundress
Hungerford, Berkshire
COX, Clara A Daughter F 5 1846 Scholar
Westminster, Middlesex
COX, Ellena Daughter F 2 1849
Chelsea, Middlesex
COX, John J Son M 0 (6 MOS) 1851
Finchley, Middlesex
>>>>JONES, Sarah Ann Niece F 10 1841 Nurse Maid
Hungerford, Berkshire

Second marriage of Eleanor -

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Eleanor Cox
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1820
Age: 46
Spouse Name: William Brown
Spouse Age: 73
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Dec 1866
Parish: Shoreditch St Leonard
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: James Jones
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Brown
Register Type: Parish Register



Source Citation: Guildhall, St Leonard Shoreditch, Register of marriages, Nov 1866 - May 1868, P91/LEN/A/01/Ms 7498/78.

ahh ... thank you

It's also a mystery as to where John Cox (husband) is, as he never seems to appear on the census returns even though Ellena/Eleanor always states being married

This looks like a daughter for John & Ell*

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Ellena Cox
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 8 Jul 1849
Father's Name: John Cox <<<<<Servant
Mother's name: Ellen Cox
Parish or Poor Law Union: Whetstone
Borough: Barnet
Register Type: Parish Registers

I see by the time Clara marries John is listed as deceased

And another child


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: John James Cox
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 8 Dec 1850
Father's Name: John Cox
Mother's name: Ellen Cox
Parish or Poor Law Union: Whetstone
Borough: Barnet
Register Type: Parish Registers


If John was a servant then that might be why he doesnt show on the censuses with his family, he may have 'lived' in

Hi Gins
Thank you

Yes, I saw that too re. John being deceased by the time Clara married this also ties in with Eleanor's second marriage to William Brown in 1866.

I just have no idea where John can be during the census returns for 1851 and 1861 - nowhere to be found. I'm also unable to find John's death record especially as I don't have any firm details regarding his age or place of birth

Michelle

1851 England Census
Name: John Cox
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: Westminster St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St James Westminster
Sub-registration district: St Jamess Square
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 52
Piece: 1484
Folio: 340
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Ann Fontana 45
William Lambert 57
Margaret Lambert 49
L F Cockson 45
Hannah King 24
Mary Artlett 40
Mary Ann Truckle 24
Matilda Harding 24
John Cox 35 <<<<<<<<<<<Married, I cant read his occupation?

Just to clarify Clara Amelia's marriage date (not 1919 as shown in opening post):

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Clara Amelia Cox
Spouse Name: David Beazley - lamplighter
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Apr 1865
Parish: Islington Holy Trinity
Borough: Islington
Father Name: John Cox - deceased
Spouse Father Name: Richard Beazley - shoe maker
Register Type: Parish Register

Bride and groom were both minors and hadn't been married before. Both were of the parish.

Witnesses were William Brown and Sarah Webb.

Taking the other researchers information (which is unsubstantiated) out of the equation, it's quite possible that John Cox never existed. Many fictitious father's were invented to save embarrassment when someone was illegitimate. Did the other researcher mention where they'd got the info from?

Possible death, they didnt waste remarrying back in thoses days!


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
about John Cox
Name: John Cox
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1866
Age at Death: 48
Registration district: Chelsea
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 165

John Cox (if he did exist) was allegedly deceased when Clara married in 1865.

Interesting that her mother married William Brown, which was the name of one of the witnesses at Clara's marriage.

Oh ... what a web of mystery.

I must admit Marie Celeste I was beginning to wonder myself whether John Cox actually existed or not ... but with his name on Clara's marriage record I was leaning towards him existing but being very elusive

Very interesting that William Brown 'pops up' as one of Clara's marriage witnesses especially as it's only one year before a William Brown marries her Mother

I think I'm going to have to write all this down to see if I can untangle it

Baptism (Find My Past website)
First names:Clara Amelia
Surname:Cox
Baptism year:1846
Baptism month:Jun
Baptism day:7
Parish:St John the Evangelist, Smith Square
County:Middlesex
Page:88
Birth year:1846
Birth month:Mar
Birth day:6
Father's First names:John (Servant)
Mother's First names:Ellen
Record source:Westminster Baptisms- Transcripts
Data provider:Westminster Archives
(address, 26, Bowling Street)

Chris :)

edits (1851, could be Footman Gins?)

There is this marriage. Ell* father was James Jones, you would need the certificate to check his details


Marriages Sep 1845 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cartner Thomas Strand 1 447
Cox John Strand 1 447 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Fishenden Sarah Strand 1 447
JONES Ellen Strand 1 447 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Main Eliza Strand 1 447
Ramage Robert Strand 1 447
RUTTER Michael Strand 1 447
Warne Lydia Eliza Strand 1 447

Oh!! Gins ... that's the only possible marriage I've seen between Eleanor (Ellen) and John Cox ... I'll have to look into this one a bit further

Thanks everyone ... the story (hopefully) is starting to come together ... all help untangling this is very much appreciated

Michelle

Can I ask for some more help on this please?

I think I may have found the family on the 1841 census - I've paid for credits to read the transcription and to view the document but document is very very faint and I'm unable to read it.

On the transcription it says:
Living in Newton, Hungerford, Hungerford Union, Berkshire
James Jones - age 35, b.1806 Berkshire
Ann Jones - age 0, b.1841 (transcription error due to poor document ??)
Louisa Jones - age 0, b.1841 (transcription error due to poor document ??)
Sarah Jones - age 0, b.1841 (transcription error due to poor document ??)

Could this be Eleanor (Ellen)'s father and mother, I wonder. Has Louisa been transcribed incorrectly or could this be a sister of Eleanor's?

Is anyone able to access any better quality documentation or know how I could do this ... unfortunately, I'm unable to visit local archives as I am currently living overseas

In advance, thank you again for your help
Michelle

Michelle

Whats the folio ref for that census please?

1841 England Census

Name: James Janes
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Hungerford
Hundred: Kintbury Eagle
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Hungerford
Sub-registration district: Hungerford
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 21
Book: 10
Folio: 12
Page Number: 19
Household Members: Name Age
James Janes 35 <<Ag labourer
Ann Janes 55
Louisa Janes 20
Sarah Janes 11 Mo

Eleanor Jones baptised by James and Anne 29/8/1824 in hungerford.

1841Hungerford D12 .11
James Janes/Jones

1841 Hungerford D9 >14
Elen Jones 1826 born Berkshire.


Maryb.

Hi Gins ... apologies for not getting back to you ... had to go out unexpectedly. It looks as though you found the census I was looking for ... I wonder if it is a transcription error or whether it's a different family ?? So so difficult to establish - although looking at the information Mary has given it looks as though it could be transcription error

Hi Mary ... thank you, I have been trying to find Eleanor/Ellen/Elen's baptism without much success ... I had found her siblings ... I'm just hoping that this is the same person ... she seems to change the spelling of her name rather frequently - only constant does seem to be the parents names of James and Ann so I am assuming we're all on the right track

Michelle