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I have been looking at that marriage, Jude, And then there is this birth --not sure if the 2 "Go together" but you never know !!! ( the original image for this birth is very poor and hard to read)

Births Mar 1916 (>99%)

Turner Hilda Bipalma Chorlton 8c 1308


Barbara x

Wow Barbara...

If this was my family I'd be thinking this wasn't an adoption :-)

Harvey,
Do you know when and where Elsie and Joe died?
Thanks

Yes, Jude,thats what I was thinking !! And I can't find anything else for Elsie either. No birth index that I can see. Nothing on 1911 census --looked for passengers coming in and can't see anything.

There are a few De Palma , all sorts of spellings for this name, in census however not finding an Elsie, and mostly London way on.

Barbara x

I too found that marriage and wondered about it.......but blowed if I could find a birth for the union..Well done Barbara.


I would certainly have to follow that one up if it was my family...Looks too good not to..
Fans

Just to add, Cheshire free bmd has the marriage as:
DIPALINA Elsie TURNER Joseph 1913 Heaton Reddish, St Mary Stockport Cheshire ST8/4/149

Name: Elsie Dipalma
Birth Year: abt 1888
Age: 25
Marriage Date: 4 Oct 1913
Parish: Reddish, St Mary
Parish as it Appears: Heaton Reddish
Father's Name: Charles Dipalma.........Retired
Spouse's Name: Joseph Turner..............Barman
Spouse's Father's Name: James Turner........Labourer
Reference Number: L165/1/2/4
Item Number: 2
Archive Roll: 979

Well done :-D

Can anyone find them on census ? I Can't see them !!


It says on Marriage that Joseph lived at 49 and Elsie at 78 Bangor Street But I can't see them there on 1911 census


Wittness John Henry Cheetham and Jane Cheetham

It looks as if Jane was Joseph Turner's sister

Marriages Dec 1901 (>99%)
CARTER Maria Stockport 8a 31
>>>>CHEETHAM John Henry Stockport 8a 31
PRICE Walter Stockport 8a 31
>>>>>TURNER Jane Stockport 8a 31


Barbara x

There are several trees on Ancestry that have James married to Martha Foster and children matching Jane and Joseph. This is Jane in 1911

Name: John Henry Cheetham
Age in 1911: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Stockport, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Stockport
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Street Address: 29 Higher Bridge St Heaton Norris Stockport
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Finisher Bassinett Works
Registration District: Stockport
Registration District Number: 443
Sub-registration District: Stockport Third
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 21405
Household Members:
Name Age
John Henry Cheetham 29
Jane Cheetham 29
Harry Cheetham 9
May Cheetham 6
Annie Cheetham 3
Martha Cheetham 1

Using those trees can find this 1901 census that could be "our" Joseph

Name: James Turner
Age: 48
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: North Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: Beswick and Bradford Christchurch
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration District: Prestwich
Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 216
Piece: 3762
Folio: 49
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
William Foster 46
Sarah Foster 45
Sarah Foster 15
James Turner 48
Joshua Turner 16
Charles Turner 14
Joseph Turner 12

This fits with other children

BUT I can't find Joseph in 1911 nor Elsie ever

If no Joseph in 1911. did he meet her abroad?

But as he was a barman when married, does not seem particularly likely.

Interesting that her father is 'retired'.

Is this Joseph in 1891, his father is Charles, though, but Charles was born in France.

1891 England Census
Joseph Turner Age: 9 Months Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Charles Turner
Gender: Male Where born: Stockport, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Beswick Ecclesiastical parish: Berwick St Mary
County/Island: Lancashire Country: England
Registration District: Prestwich Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 41
Piece: 3259 Folio: 45 Page Number: 32
Charles Turner 44
Martha Ann Turner 40
Jane Turner 15
Joshua Turner 9
Charles Turner 7
Joseph Turner 9 Months
Joshua Foster 50 brolaw
Mary Foster 50
Ellen Foster 1
William Rogers 40
Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 3259; Folio: 45; Page: 32; GSU Roll: 6098369.

That's the 1891 census the tree on Ancestry has...interesting!

Dipalma doesn't sound very English and can't find her anywhere before her marriage :-)

The tree I am looking at follows brother Charles and everything says "James" except that 1891 census!

Has that tree got the 1881 census, as should have daughter Jane, with mother Martha Ann and father Charles or James, as marriage was 1873?

This is what's on there...

Name: Martha Turner
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Jas. Turner
Gender: Female
Where born: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Bradford
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 12 Adelaide St.
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration District: Prestwich
Sub-registration District: Newton
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4017
Folio: 18
Page Number: 30
Household Members:
Name Age
Jas. Turner 26
Martha Turner 27
Jos. Hy. Turner 4
Thomas Turner 1
View
Original
Record

View original image

No Jane....

Jane's marriage...she says she was 20 in 1901 which would explain why she isn't on 1881 census maybe

Name: John Henry Cheetham
Birth Year: abt 1882
Age: 19
Marriage Date: 21 Dec 1901
Parish: Heaton Norris, All Saints
Parish as it Appears: Heaton Norris, All Saints
Father's Name: Harry Cheetham
Spouse's Name: John Turner
Spouse's Father's Name: James Turner
Reference Number: GB127.L209/1/2/1

If you look at the 1891 census, Martha's age is 42 crossed out and replaced in margin by 40

Jane's is replaced by 15 but I think the original said 11

One thing bothers me, how did you discover your mother was adopted in 1930 - if you were not aware of it before her death? What led you to the adoption certificate?

Edit, sorry this posted before I finished.

There is also the possibility that her mother (or father) re-married and she was adopted by the new parent, it is recorded in the same way and looks like a normal adoption.

I have pm'd Harvey asking him to come back to the thread!

Hi Flip

I wonder if Harvey - as he has the certificate seemingly - found it in his mum's things after she died?

We really do need him to come back to the thread especially to see if he knows anything about Joe and Elsie. Because there are an awful lot of coincidences that a Joe Turner married an Elsie (Dipalma) - the only marriage I can find for Joe and Elsie and they had a daughter Hilda whose birth registration matches that of Harvey's mum :-S