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Just wondering what people's thoughts are please.

I'm working with a DNA match to see if we can find where we connect. On the marriage certificate of Thomas Bull and Ann Bullock who married on 12th February 1876 at Stretton, Burton, Staffordshire there is no father listed for Ann, a line has been entered instead. Ann's age has been given as 20, so 1855/56 One of the witnesses was an Edwin Bullock, another was John Upton.

My DNA match feels that she has found Ann with her parents in the 1861 census living in Stretton, Burton upon Trent.

Edwin Bullock 1816 Stretton
Harriet Bullock 1816 Burton

They are with an Ann 1852 and 6 other children.

There's a marriage in 1861 for an Edwin Bullock to an Ann Toon. Edwin's father was also called Edwin. One of the witnesses was a Fanny Upton. Having done some checking John Upton married Fanny Bullock in Dec Q 1855, her dad was named Edward Bullock a Tailor.

There's a birth for an Ann Bullock Mar Q 1856 Burton on Freebmd and FMP but not on Ancestry. On FMP's record ther's a dash where mother's maiden name should be.

My thought are that Ann was illegitimate as no father was named on her marriage certificate.
I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Chris

If there is no maiden name on the birth certificate then she is illegitimate. I assume no father is mentioned. It all seems to be confirmed by the absence of a father on the marriage certificate..

Posting 1861 for our reference :

Edwin Bullock
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Edwin Bullock
Age: 45
Estimated Birth Year: 1816
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Harriett Bullock
Gender: Male
Where born: Stretton, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Stretton
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Burton Upon Trent
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 53
Piece: 1967
Folio: 64
Page number: 12
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Edwin Bullock 45 Head
Harriett Bullock 45 Wife
Thomas Bullock 16 Son
Harriet Bullock 14 Daughter
Charles Bullock 11 Son
Ann Bullock 9 Daughter
Arthur Bullock 6 Son
Henry Bullock 5 Son
Mary Bullock 2 Daughter
Eliza Bullock 6/12 Daughter

BULLOCK, THOMAS mmn THORPE
GRO Reference: 1844 D Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT UNION Volume 17 Page 9


BULLOCK, HARRIET mmn PEACH
GRO Reference: 1847 M Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT UNION Volume 17 Page 10


BULLOCK, CHARLES mmn THORP
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT UNION Volume 17 Page 4

BULLOCK, ARTHUR mmn PEACH
GRO Reference: 1854 J Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 299

BULLOCK, HENRY mmn PEACH
GRO Reference: 1856 J Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 309

BULLOCK, MARY mmn PEACH
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 301

BULLOCK, ELIZA mmn THORPE
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 281

No father listed - illegitimate. No other explanation

This Ann seems not to be the one you're interested in.


Ann Bullock
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1900
Name: Ann Bullock
Baptism Date: 16 Nov 1851
Baptism Place: Stretton with Claymills, St Mary, Staffordshire, England
Religion: Anglican
Father: Edwin Bullock
Mother: Harriet Bullock
Page number: 15


BULLOCK, ANN mmn PEACH
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT UNION Volume 17 Page 7


Ann Bullock
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1900
Name: Ann Bullock
Marriage Age: 19
Record Type: Marriage
Birth Date: abt 1851
Residence Place: Stretton
Marriage Date: 1 Feb 1870
Marriage Place: Stretton with Claymills, St Mary, Staffordshire, England
Father: Edwin Bullock
Spouse: Joseph Wood
Religion: Anglican
Page number: 15

Thanks for your replies. My thoughts were that she was illegitimate whereas my match thought Edwin was her father.

The two maiden names are confusing me. Why are some Peach and some Thorpe?

Chris

Haven't figured that one out yet!

Edwin Bullock
in the Staffordshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1900
Name: Edwin Bullock
Record Type: Bann
Residence Place: Burton upon Trent
Marriage Banns Date: 19 Oct 1834
Marriage Banns Place: Burton upon Trent, St Modwen, Staffordshire, England
Spouse: Harriet Thorpe <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Religion: Anglican
Page number: 275

Thanks ArgyllGran I've just this second found the marriage For Edwin and Harriet Thorpe. Witnesses were Charles Bulllock and Ann Bullock.

Just started looking for Bullock and Ann Peach but not having any luck.

Nor me, I'm afraid.

But anyway, Edwin's daughter Ann isn't your Ann Bullock.

Although irrelevant now, I have found with regards to the different maiden names given on birth registrations, in this case Peach, that it is the fact the maiden name of one of the parents mother's. So when asked "mother's maiden name" they have given their own mother's maiden name rather than the actual child's mother's maiden name, if that makes sense. :-)

Thanks ArgyllGran. Even without the Joseph Wood/ Ann Bullock marriage you found my gut instinct was that Edwin and Harriet weren't the parents of our Ann.

Thanks LondonBelle. I totally understand what you're saying. I'll research that too.

Chris

May I suggest that perhaps Fanny Bullock was the mother of Ann.

Fanny married John Upton in 1855
Marriages Dec 1855
BULLOCK Fanny Burton 6b 456
Upton John Burton 6b 456

I believe Ann appears on the 1861 Census as Ann Upton

Name: Ann Upton
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John Upton
Mother's Name: Fanny Upton
Gender: Female
Where born: Stretton, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Stretton
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Burton Upon Trent
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 75
Piece: 1967
Folio: 67
Page number: 18
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Upton
24 Head
Fanny Upton
25 Wife
Ann Upton 5 Daughter

I note that one of the Witnesses on Ann's marriage to Thomas Bull in 1876 was John Upton.

In the 1871 Census Ann again appears as Ann Upton a Servant. You'll note that a Thomas Bull is also a Servant, could this be Ann's future husband?

Name: Ann Upton
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Burton-Upon-Trent, Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Rolleston
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton Upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Tutbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 117
Piece: 2897
Folio: 41
Page number: 22
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Ward
36 Head
Lucy H Ward
33 Wife
Kate Ward
7 Daughter
William Ward
6 Son
Edith Ward
4 Daughter
Thomas Ward
2 Son
John Ward
8/12 Son
Hannah Upton
19 Servant
>>>Ann Upton 15 Servant
>>>Thomas Bull 16 Servant

This is Fanny in the 1841 Census, you'll note there's an Edwin/ Edward Senior and Junior, perhaps one is the other Witness from Ann & Thomas's marriage in 1876?

Detail Source
Name: Fanny Bullock
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Female
Where born: Staffordshire, England
Civil parish: Burton Upon Trent
Hundred: North Offlow
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Burton upon Trent
Sub-registration district: Burton upon Trent
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 975
Book: 12
Folio: 6
Page number: 7
Household Members (Name) Age
Edw Bullock Senr
25
Hart Bullock
25
Fanny Bullock 6
Emma Bullock
3
Edw Bullock Junr
1

Now interestingly Fanny Bullock & John Upton married on 31 Dec 1855. On the Image for John it states under Father ' Ann Upton, Single Woman'.

Back
Fanny Bullock in 1855
Staffordshire Marriages
Burton upon Trent, St Modwen, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Fanny
Last name Bullock
Birth year 1834
Age 21
Residence Stretton
Year 1855
Date 31 Dec 1855
Spouse's first name(s) John
Spouse's last name Upton
Spouse's birth year 1835
Spouse's age 20
Spouse's residence Stretton
Father's first name(s) Edward
Father's last name Bullock
Denomination Anglican
Place Burton upon Trent, St Modwen
County Staffordshire
Country England
Archive reference D4219/1/16
Register type Marriage
Page 4
Record set Staffordshire Marriages

There is a Birth Registration for an Ann Upton in the first Qtr of 1856. As we know, births that happened in the last quarter of the previous year are often registered in the first Qtr of the following year. So I wonder when this Ann was actually born?

UPTON, ANN MMN BULLOCK
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in BURTON UPON TRENT UNION Volume 06B Page 272

On FreeBMD there is also this Birth, note same Vol & Page
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1856
Bullock Ann Burton upon Trent 6b 272

Thanks LondonBelle.

The birth that I think is my Ann is the same year and Q but surname Bullock. MMN isn't shown. Ann Upton was more than likely the daughter of John Upton and Fanny Bullock. Fanny's dad was Edward Bullock.

Chris

As the Vol and Page number are the same for both the Ann Bullock and Ann Upton entries the chances are they are the same person. However, to confirm this you would need to get a copy of the Birth Certificate.

Wow you have been busy.

I've been out so only had my phone and didn't go through the who thread, I just responded to your comment at 11.44 and I'd only seen the first half of your update.

I think you may be right. However I'm still not sure why there is no father listed on Ann's marriage or why, if John Upton and her mum married, her surname changed to Bullock.

I need to check John and Fanny through the census records.

Thank you so much for what you've found.

Chris

It might possibly be that John Upton is not Ann's father but that he 'adopted' her.
Fanny and John Upton didn't marry until 31 Dec 1855, so Ann Bullock/Upton could have been born in the last Qtr of 1855.

I agree that if Ann Bullock and Ann Upton are the same person why didn't she marry in the name of Upton as no one else would be any the wiser.....only God. Perhaps that is it that in the eyes of God she was Ann Bullock, the Victorians could be very strange when it came to religion:-)