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Could someone please look and see if they can see a John RIley and Ellen Manning in 1871 cencus please,would like to know if Thomas was with them at this time and where they were, Thomas was born in Newcastle but his siblings in Carlisle, the address i have on his birth cert is 14 travellers something, cant make the next bit out, Newcastle. Many thanks Kaz

any idea on birth yrs? and is it thomas manning or thomas riley?

Hi there Jennifer, thanks..Thomas Riley 1874 born Newcastle, John Riley abt 1850 Ireland and Ellen Manning abt 1855 newcastle..thank you so much for helping. Kaz

not sure if this is her, this is the only one coming up 1871 Ellen Minning Age: 16 Estimated birth year: abt 1855 Relation: Daughter Father's name: Patrick Mother's name: Catherine Gender: Female Where born: Newcastle Upon Tyne Civil parish: Gateshead Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Durham Country: England Name Age Ann Manning 2 Catherine Minning 44 Ellen Minning 16 Patrick Minning 42 Patrick Minning 5 Thomas Minning 12

hi Jennifer, thanks for taking a look, on Thomas's birth certificate i got this morning his parents are John and Ellen, proving hard work here...

this is thier marriage Ellen Manning 1872 Apr-May-Jun Newcastle Upon Tyne Northumberland View Record John Riley 1872 Apr-May-Jun Newcastle Upon Ellen Manning Year of Registration: 1872 Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun District: Newcastle Upon Tyne County: Northumberland Volume: 10b Page: 255 (click to see others on page) it would give you thier dads names

this could be them in 1881 John Riley Age: 31 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil parish: Caldewgate County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Street address: 2 Cooperative Court Bricklayers Labourer George Hall 24 Ellen Riley 27 Ellen Riley 5 James Riley John Riley 31 Mary Ann Riley 3 Thomas Riley 7

Found that marriage and also a another marriage the year later, jan qu 1873, have went with the one you have found as it ties in better with Thomas's birth..

Here they are on the 1881 census Discover Your Family Story1881 England Census 1881 England Census Name: John Riley Age: 31 Estimated birth year: abt 1850 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Ellen Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil parish: Caldewgate County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Street address: 2 Cooperative Court Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Bricklayers Labourer Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age George Hall 24 Boarder Ellen Riley 27 Ellen Riley 5 James Riley 7 days old John Riley 31 Bricklayers labourer Mary Ann Riley 3 Thomas Riley 7 Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 5159; Folio: 100; Page: 36; Line: ; GSU roll: 1342245. Regards Rachel

Thats why im confused Jennifer as Ellen is with them in 1881 age 5 but the death record i found says she died age 4..

Have you got Ellen's death certificate? Its possible she died after the 1881 census and her age at the 1881 census may have not been written correctly (or the parents lied about her age)

Found them on 1891 census living in 11 Jane Street, Carlisle John's profession is the same, his son Thomas is a Sawyer's labourer Discover Your Family Story1891 England Census 1891 England Census Name: John Riley Age: 40 Estimated birth year: abt 1851 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Helen Gender: Male Where born: Ireland Civil parish: Caldewgate Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Carlisle Sub-registration district: St Mary ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Francis Riley 7/12 Helen Riley 35 Helen Riley 6 Henry Riley 7/12 James Riley 10 John Riley 40 John P Riley 8 Margaret L Riley 5 Mary A Riley 15 Thomas Riley 17 Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 4290; Folio 34; Page 14; GSU roll: 6099400. Regards Rachel

No Rachel i havent got her death certifcate, i have taking the ref dowbn thought so once ive figured it all out if i have to i can order it.

This is getting rather confusing as i dont have all them children for them, i just have Thomas,1874(got his birth cert) Ellen 1876c, mary Ann 1878 and James 1881

1901 Ellen Riley Age: 42 Estimated birth year: abt 1859 Relation: Wife Spouse's name: John Gender: Female Where born: Newcastle, Northumberland, England Civil parish: St Mary Within Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary County/Island: Cumberland Country: England Ellen Riley 42 Ellen Riley 17 Frank Riley 10 James Riley 20 John Riley 50 John Riley 12 Kate Riley 7 Maggie E Riley 15 Mary A Riley 24 2 hinkle st ,st mary within cumberland. a labourer

Hi again Jennifer, sorry i was copy and pasting the info into an email for my dad to print off for me so i could study what you have found better, do you think that maybe some off the children wasnt home when the household was taken? Fussy headed Kaz lol x

Hi Margaret, so i am, derrrr........me, can you tell my heads in a spin...lol

its possible children were with other relatives. you would have to search for the ones missing, older ones could be in service or married .

Kaz, Remember that when children were 16 they could marry with their parents' consent. So, if any of the girls were 6 in one census, they may have been married by the next census. Also, children when they were 14 could have been in employment if it was necessary - this employment could have been away from home. Don't forget that some children died when they were young as a result of illness. It was rare for people to have twins and for them to survive - this may account for why there is only 1 of the twins living at home - that said its possible that the children could have been staying with other relatives. Will continue to look into the children and let you know what I find. Regards Rachel

Once i have a look at the print outs i will start working on what you suggest, sorry took awhile to reply, my pooter crashed, grr...Thanks for your help.x