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Heather Here's the family in 1861, father William is a Blacksmith; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Ann Coates abt 1827 Scotland Wife Birmingham Warwickshire Elizabeth Coates abt 1859 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire John Coates abt 1856 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire Mary Ann Coates abt 1849 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Robert Coates abt 1854 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire William Coates abt 1818 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Head Birmingham Warwickshire William Coates abt 1852 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Son Birmingham Warwickshire and in 1871, a rather large family...William is now a Bedstead Smith, as are Sons William amd John; Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Ann Coates abt 1829 Scotland Wife Birmingham Warwickshire Ann Coates abt 1865 Birmingham Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Benjamin Coates abt 1862 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire Elizabeth Coates abt 1859 Birmingham Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Jane Coates abt 1867 Birmingham Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire John Coates abt 1856 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire Mary Ann Coates abt 1849 Birmingham Daughter Birmingham Warwickshire Robert Coates abt 1854 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire Thomas Coates abt 1870 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire William Coates abt 1821 Birmingham Head Birmingham Warwickshire William Coates abt 1852 Birmingham Son Birmingham Warwickshire If you'd like the images, let me have your e-mail address. Steve

Jane I've had another look using Eliza Jane, but I'm afraid I've had no more luck Steve

Beryl There are two possibilities, both in the registration district of Liverpool; Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Jun 1895 Aspinall William Liverpool 8b 195 Reilly Thomas Liverpool 8b 195 Roberts Letitia Ann Liverpool 8b 195 Robinson Mary Liverpool 8b 195 ----------------------------------------------------- Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1896 Aspinall William Liverpool 8b 33 Coleman Ada Liverpool 8b 33 McAndrew Michael Liverpool 8b 33 Robinson Mary Liverpool 8b 33

Hi Steve could you please look up on 1871 & after census's for Head: Hugh Jones b:c1836 Wistanstow shropshire Wife: mary Fox b:1831 Smethcott shropshire Daugh: Eleanor/Elenor Harriet b; 1861 Trefonen shropshire. i have them in 1861 living with mary's father John Fox at 60 park lane smethcott shropshire. any other children??? Many thanxs lesley :~)

Adi on the 1901 census, there are only two James Mulvey's born in lancashire within a coupl of years of 1898 and neither has a father called James. There is a James Mulvey, born in Oldham, Lancs in 1892 whose father is also James, but I guess this can't be him? Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Thomas Brady abt 1871 Ireland Boarder Oldham Lancashire Annie Connor abt 1892 Oldham, Lancashire, England Niece Oldham Lancashire Thomas Daley abt 1880 Ireland Boarder Oldham Lancashire Matthew Merrick abt 1877 Ireland Boarder Oldham Lancashire Tom Merrick abt 1881 Ireland Boarder Oldham Lancashire Emily Mulvey abt 1880 Oldham, Lancashire, England Sister Oldham Lancashire James Mulvey abt 1863 Oldham, Lancashire, England Head Oldham Lancashire James Mulvey abt 1892 Oldham, Lancashire, England Son Oldham Lancashire Margaret Mulvey abt 1863 Walsall, Staffordshire, England Wife Oldham Lancashire Mary Ann Mulvey abt 1890 Oldham, Lancashire, England Daughter Oldham Lancashire -------------------------------------------- If I can look any further for you, let me know. Steve

Lesley This looks like them in 1881 although Mary and Hugh are much older than you said; Alice Jones abt 1861 Llangedwin, Denbighshire, Wales Daughter Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, England Ann Jones abt 1879 Trefarclawdd, Shropshire, England Granddaughter Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, England Eleanor Jones abt 1861 Trefonen, Shropshire, England Daughter Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, England Hugh Jones abt 1818 Trefonen, Shropshire, England Head Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, England Jane Jones abt 1857 Trefonen, Shropshire, England Daughter Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, England John Jones abt 1853 Trefonen, Shropshire, England Son Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, England Mary Jones abt 1818 Trefonen, Shropshire, England Wife Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, Richard Jones abt 1850 Trefonen, Shropshire, England Son Nr. Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural, Shropshire, ------------------------------------------------------ Does this look anything like them to you?

I dont think it is them Steve. on 1861 census given to me yesterday it says mary jones b:c1831 smethcott (wife) Huhben Jones agr lab b:c1836 winstanstow Son-in-law Elenor Harriet Jones b:c1860 Smethcott daughter. i searched for marriage and only found Hugh Jones and mary. what do you think? lesley :~)

Had great success from you rinformation before so thought you might not mind giving this mystery a bash. After a birth registration for any of the following as if i can get the birth certificate it will reveal hopefully the true name of the mother etc. have the family in 1891 as the following Mother Eliza Middleton 47 preston suffolk daughter Floria j Middleton aged 19 Aldershot son Frederick Middleton 13 Leyton son (Says blank on form but taking it as Richard Middleton as on 1901 census?) aged 10 leyton. Father Harvey aged 43 Stepney and daughter Mary R Middleton aged 16 Aldershot. At that time they were living at 11 Glynn Road. however on the 1901 census it shows them as still living in Hackney Frederick Middleton son 34 Preston, Harvey Father aged 48 mile end, Kleigita Middleton 56 Preston and Richard Middleton 30 preston and Ellen Poole 15 servant. I hope i havent confused you too much my head is spinning. If you could find a birth ref for me it would be great i have tried but can find nothing! HELP PLEASE!!!!!!! Many thanks Mandy

Lesley Given that the names and places of birth are right and Eleanor's year of birth is right, I thinki it probably is the same family, but for some reason the ages have been given incorrectly on one of the census returns. It could of course be an error made by the enumerator at the time when transcribing from the census returns to the ledger we get to see scans of. Impossible to know for sure. Steve

Ok Steve many thanxs for all your help again will copy this out and keep it safe many thanxs lesley :~) Ps sorry what is the address steve thanxs lesley :~)

Mandy This looks like Frederick's birth, Leyton is in the district of West Ham; Name: Middleton, Frederick Record Type: Births Quarter: June Year: 1877 District: West Ham County: Essex Greater London Volume: 4a Page: 126 This is the only one I can find, and in no way is it guaranteed to be him. Steve

Lesley The address it at the end of each line, Nr Fron Fach, Oswestry Rural. There's also a Fron Fach, Fron Farm and Fron Cottage on the same page. Steve

Oh thanks Stephen lets hope you have hit jackpot i will aplly for it today. Cheers Mandy

Thanxs for that Steve appreciate all your help Lesley :~)

Hi Steve, Thankyou very much for all the info. I have found deaths for Samuel and Caroline, both in dec qtr 1891 ! Regards Mary

Hi Steve Thanks for looking for the marriage, i'm beginning to wonder if they did get married, on their daughters birth cert(1891) is says the mother is Emma Yeats and father William Ketteringham. Thanks again Kirsty x

Steve Many thanks indeed for trying re Beatrice Mallon. This is a real mystery that I'll just have to keep chipping away at! Thanks again for ALL your help. Colin

Hi Stephen. Can you look on 1901 census for a JAMES FORSYTH born in Barrow, Lancs in about 1879. Moved to St Helens but don't know when. Many thanks. Kay.

Marriage look-up please Bride: Ada Catherine Mutter from Everton in Liverpool born c. 1865 Groom - surname Youds and from Liverpool area, age and first name unknown. Ada was the daughter of John Mutter and Ellen Campbell and was still living at home with her widowed mother in the 1891 census so a marriage date of 1891 at the earliest would be likely. Any help would be appreciated here. thanks Deborah

Hello Stephen, Thank you for the look-up for David and Eleanor Evans. I must have the dates wrong. Would you please look for the birth of Eleanor married name Evans, Maiden name could be Picton? or Davies. born i believe in Pembrokeshire. Thank you, Margaret. born about 1860-1.