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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 4 Aug 2008 18:31

Greeting’s again. ……. Karen O’ Brisbane….……..

What are you trying to read ?

If you post details then I can have a look at it this end
It might be a better copy? ….



Karen Report 4 Aug 2008 21:44

Hi Mike

I am looking at the Bishops Transcripts for Buckminster.. Baps, Marriages and Burials, 1580-1849..FHL Bristish Film (590856.item 2)..
I get the film thru LDS Family History Centre.

I have found the first 3 ( of about 9) children and am struggling thru the rest of the film to find the others. I am chasing confirmation of Henry Harley b1793, but this page is unreadible ( Henry later marries Julia Winchester in 1814 in Chesterfield and start their family )

Karen of Brisbane


Frazzled Report 6 Aug 2008 20:00

Hello Mike
Recently you kindly found the marriage of James White to Sarah Carteledge 19/11/1785 in Castle Donnington. I have found the marriage of James’ parents and his siblings but the entries are submitted . If you have time please could you check them out for me.

Thomas White = Mary Barrow 18/2/1760 in Lockington with Hemington

Children: All born in Lockington with Hemington
William 2/7//1760
Percival 7/6/1762
James 15/7/1764
Joseph 27/12/1767
Elizabeth 23/9/1770
Mary 14/2/1773
Sarah 16/4/1775
Dorothy 15/6/1777

I don’t know where Thomas or Mary were born either so any info would be gratefully received!

Many thanks
Caroline xx

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 7 Aug 2008 01:51

Greeting’s Again Frazzled…….

OK will do my best to have a look for you……
But seeing the early years the information will be very BASIC.
Plus I doubt if we find where they all came from
But hey…..I can but give it a try…..

In the meantime some details I’ve found to date……:~

White Burials for St. Nicolas Parish Church. Lockington..:~

WHITE Edward 29 Dec 1819 0 Abode Hemington
WHITE John 20 Oct 1824 67 Abode Lockington
WHITE Elizabeth 23 Feb 1827 0 Abode Hemington
WHITE Sarah 26 Aug 1829 67 Abode Hemington
WHITE Joseph 28 Mar 1835 1 Abode Hemington
WHITE Ann 02 Jan 1842 21 Abode Hemington
WHITE Eunice 17 Sep 1851 84 Abode Hemington
WHITE Elizabeth 30 May 1856 1 Abode Hemington
WHITE Samuel 18 Jun 1858 13 Abode Hemington
WHITE Mary 07 Nov 1858 56 Abode Hemington
WHITE Edward 04 Nov 1861 Inf Abode Hemington
WHITE Percival 06 Mar 1864 66 Abode Hemington
WHITE Ann 17 Dec 1865 22 Abode Hemington
WHITE William 06 Feb 1871 32 Abode Hemington
WHITE John 11 Apr 1875 76 Abode Hemington
WHITE John Palmer 23 Dec 1876 32 Abode Hemington
WHITE Sophia 23 Jan 1879 82 Abode Hemington
WHITE Mary 26 Dec 1882 93 Abode Hemington



Frazzled Report 7 Aug 2008 08:59

Hello Mike

Thank you for the burials - that will keep me busy for a while!

Please only check the other stuff if you have time. It must be difficult to find out where people come from the further back you go but I think it is really interesting to see how far the young men travelled to find a bride!

Caroline xx

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 7 Aug 2008 21:45

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O. KAREN O’ BRISBANE……¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)

Temp Loan Fiche No. 1. Third fiche of three.

John the Baptist Parish Church
Registers read thus :~

The last but one page from the end of fiche.

Heading at top of this page reads
Baptisms of Anno Domini :~ 1792.

Date changes to 1793.

Right down at the bottom of this page under the entry for a Catherine in April
We Get………

Henry Son of Henry & Mary ? Harley……..Bapt……??? 29th.

Name of officiating Minister. …Wm. Bissule.

Sorry but writing was very faint for both Henry’s wife’s name and the Month the baptism took place. …..


Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 7 Aug 2008 22:15

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O…….. FRAZZLED…….……¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)

There you Go………

St. Nicolas Parish Church.
Lockington. Leicestershire.

Fiche No. D E 575 / 4…….1st. fiche of two fiches.

Reads thus :~

Page. 13.


Thomas White. Of the Parish of Hemington in the County of Leicestershire.

Mary Burrows. Of the same place .

Married in the Church of Lockington. By LICENCE
From Thomas Parkinson. Surrogate.

This Eighteenth Day of February In the year of our Lord.
One Thousand Seven Hundred and Sixty.
By Me :~ Tho’ Bentley. Vicar.

Both parties signed the Register by their own Marks…….
Thomas …..+ ………Mary …+

In the presence of :~
Samuel Dakin…….. John Shaw. ( Parish Clark )

EXTRA INFORMATION from the Licence Bond Index card System.

Reads thus :~

Approved & Granted ......17th. Feb. 1760.

WHITE. Thomas. Bachelor. 24. Servant. Hemington cum Lockington.

BURROWS. Mary. Spinster. 23. Hemington
Marriage to take place Hemington cum Lockington..

Securer of £100 Bond. ( Amended 08.08.08.)
:~ ..... John Simpkin. Shoe maker. Hemington.

Your list of Baptisms checked out to be correct in every detail

So…. Another piece of the Jig Saw put in place……



Karen Report 7 Aug 2008 22:25

Hi Mike,

Tks so much for doing this look up.. as you can see this is not easy.
Question, how far away is 'Meltow Mowbray' ( I think,) from 'Buckminster', have not found Buckmnster on map, but have found Melton...
I found on the IGI a Henry Harley bc1766 from Melton Mowbray, but there is no marriage listed c 1788 or before ( my Henry marries Ann).. Are you able to view this area, please

Tks once again for the help...
Karen of Brisbane


I have just reread your last entry to me and notice that the date for the Henry you found was 1772/3, but the date for the Henry I need is c1793... K


Frazzled Report 7 Aug 2008 22:59

Thank you so much Mike, don't know what I would do without you!

Caroline xx

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 8 Aug 2008 00:14

Greeting's Again Karen......

Whoops ...slip of the fingers
YES it's 1792 / 3
I've amended my post .....

Buckminster to Melton = 9. Miles

Buckminster ....

Go North East of Melton.....
It's to the left of Colsterworth
and before Sproxton

MIKE. xx

Just spotted a Baptism for a John Harley 1788
Father :~ Henry
Mother :~ ANN

So that name on the Register I could not make out for sure could well be Ann not my guess of Mary

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 8 Aug 2008 20:20

(¯`*•.¸ (¯`*•.¸F.A.O…….. FRAZZLED…….……¸.•*¨) ¸.•*¨)

Just an update for you……..

To satisfy my curiosity to the wording “ Surrogate :~

“ From Thomas Parkinson. Surrogate.”

I had a look at the original Bond contract held on film at the Records Office

Seems the word “ Surrogate” was a term the Solicitors used to describe
the Person who was authorized to write up & issued all the Bond contracts.

Also…….. reading all the document I found out that
Thomas was John Simpson’s ( Securer of Bond ) .....Servant.
So………… Thomas was a Shoe maker by trade then.

Plus I noticed that the Bond was only for £100.
not £200 as written on the Licence Bond Index Card….

So in today’s valve £100 =

£14,085.09 using the retail price index.

MIKE. xx........." Watch out for my bill then " :0)))


Annx Report 8 Aug 2008 21:31

Hi Mike

I'm not sure you can help me with this, but perhaps you know where I can find out. My great great grandfather George Henry Holland was baptised at Blackforby, Leics in June 1860 and parents shown as Henry Holland and Mary. Henry was shown as a travelling brazier with the address Ashby wolds and another traveller from Ashby Wolds had a child baptised at the same time.

Firstly where exactly would Ashby Wolds be and would there have been a traveller's site there at that time?

Secondly I have been unable to trace a likely date of birth or marriage for Henry or the existence of any other children. George Henry Holland lived in Rugeley, Staffs according to later cencuses, seeming to have given up the travelling life and he married Caroline Johnson. His descendants also remained in the Staffordshire area.

Any help/suggestions would be much appreciated as I have been stuck for years on this.



Karen Report 9 Aug 2008 00:45

Hi Mike,

Tks for update .. on Henry Harley bc 1792 .. and the info about Buckminster, it looks as though the Harleys may have come from Melton Mowbray.

Till next time, tks heaps...

Karen of Brisbane

I have some info from the national burial index... some burials are at St Margaret and some at Welford Road, are these separate places or one in the same, with a name change in later years..
Tks K

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 9 Aug 2008 01:49

Greeting’s & Welcome Ann.

First I’ll try and answer your questions you have posted…….

Location of Ashby Wolds…….

This area forms a inverted triangle with the point being Ashby De La Zouch
Going North through Moria to Swadlincote ( known to locals as Wooden Box )
Spreading to the East through ( BLACKFORDBY Correct spelling )
and as far as Smisby. and back to Ashby De La Zouch.
Geographically it’s were the rolling hills are,…… hence the wording Wolds.

Unfortunately Blackfordby presents problems regarding Family History research.
It sits on the borders of South Derbyshire & Leicestershire.
Therefore I’m certain that Leicestershire records Office will not hold any records of this Parish……I've tried before ...
The alternative Records Office would be Derbyshire Records Office in Matlock……
I can ask at Leicestershire Office to be absolutely sure and get back to you.

I did managed to find the Baptism for George Henry Holland in Blackfordby
via the I.G.I. Batch Numbers Site.

But it stated that the Mothers Christian name was SARAH.
And the date was 23rd.June 1861.

Also I could not find a Birth Index Ref. No. via
G.R.O & the Find my past Sites.

Plus no clues found viewing the Census images 1891 & 1901.

So if they were Travelers in the true sense of the word.
Then I doubt if any Records will be found.1841 ~ 1881
( sorry I’m not being disrespectful here. )
I’m sure they would have avoided the Census enumerator on Census Night !!!!

I assume you have got Georges Marriage certificate. ?
Dec Qrt. 1882.
George Henry Holland ~ Caroline Johnson.
Litchfield District.
Cert No. 6 b. 747.

This will give you the both Parents names & Occupations.
Which would be a great start.

Have you thought of contacting a Travelers Web Site ?

Romany and Traveller Family History Society

There is a small membership fee to pay if you wish to join the Society.
( Same price as this site but for 12 months )

I trust I’ve answered your immediate inquiries ? …….

Please do not hesitate to ask for any more help.

MIKE. xx

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 9 Aug 2008 02:11

G’ Day Mate…… Karen O ‘ Brisbane.

St. Margaret’s and Welford Road are two separate burial grounds. .......

All the five central Churches within the Borough of Leicester
close their grave yards 1855. to new interments other than if the deceased was to be reunited with family members within the grave yards.

All interments took place at Welford Road Cemetery until 1960 ~70’s.

Gilroes Crematorium opened 1904. ( records held ONLY by our beloved Council )
BIG Bucks to get the information out of them now……gr….:0(((

I have Burial Index details for All the Five Central Parishes 1813. ~ 1891.
And the FULL transcriptions to Welford Road Cemetery burials 1849 ~ 1950.

Ask away……..

MIKE. xx ..Blows out my candle for today ....<3 II


Karen Report 9 Aug 2008 03:02

Hi Mike,

Would you be good enough to look up a marriage between a Henry Harley and Ann Street in maybe All Saints Loughborough or Melton Mowray.. about 1788 or a bit before .
I think I mentioned these two previously and am not sure weather you were able to find anything.

Look forward to hearing from you...
Karen of Brisbane


Frazzled Report 9 Aug 2008 20:36

Thank you very much for the very interesting extra info Mike.

I guess they must have applied to marry by licence as Mary was pregnant at the time. They married 18/2/1760 and William baptised 2/7/1760.

Glad our Thomas didn't break the conditions of his bond, it looks an awful lot of money to pay. I have tried looking up how much Thomas would have been earning at the time but have not had much success.

Will your bill be at todays reckoning or the 1760's, think I'll need a payment plan!!!!

Caroline xx

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 9 Aug 2008 20:58

Greeting’s again Frazzled …….

Yes I had worked that one out …….
In fact I thought that’s what “ Surrogate” was relating to
Hence the look at the original Bond………

Re my Bill ……

I’ve had to order another abacus as the one I have
has not got enough beads on it work out the bill in today’s valve …lol

MIKE. xx


Annx Report 10 Aug 2008 21:10

Hi Mike,

Didn't expect a reply so quickly! Many thanks for the info you have managed to send and I'll certainly try the website you suggest.

I've made some attempt to find a Sarah Holland but as yet have had no success with that either.

Yes, I do have a copy of the marriage certificate for Henry's son George Henry Holland and Caroline Johnson, married on 16/10/1882. This took place at St Michaels, Brereton, Staffs where both George and Caroline were residing at the time.

Both George and his father Henry are shown as 'cutlers' on the certificate. Later, In 1906 George's son (a George Henry Holland as well who married Jessie Nixon) is shown on his marriage certificate as a 'grinder'. In view of their lifestyle I think perhaps 'cutler' may have been a more upmarket name for 'knife grinder' or 'scissor grinder'.

George and Caroline both signed the 1882 marriage certificate with their 'mark' but the two witnesses signed with their names Thomas Wright and Martha Woods. I suppose one avenue could be to try and trace the witnesses and see what occupations they have and where they lived.

I did find a Henry Holland in the 1881 census at Great Barr, Staffordshire, who was a 'scissor grinder' b 1840/41, who I thought might be the one, although he was with a much younger wife by then if it was him. There were other 'Holland' travellers on the same site, but I could not link them to the family.

Do you know whether travellers/ gipsies were likely to bother to register their children or not and would they usually get them baptised?

Many thanks for your help.


Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC)

Mike. The Leicester Lad.(GC) Report 10 Aug 2008 22:33

Greeting’s again. ….. Ann.

Nice to see you return. ……

Your quote :~
Do you know whether travellers/ gipsies were likely to bother to register their children or not and would they usually get them baptised?

This depends on if they were trying to live to the traditions of the Travellers
Or trying to change their life style ?

If they were “ On the Road “ then I believe they had their favourite places to stop especially in the Winter months .
This is usually when they have their Children Baptised or they marry if they do not wish to follow the Travellers usual traditions of “ Jumping over the broom stick “

Also if they wish to claim on the Parish Community Chest
Or have been moved on by a “ Removal Order or a Settlement Order “
Then I would think that one of the conditions for this would be to be Baptised
And so become part of the Village.

I think if it was me I would try and get to the Records Office for Staffordshire
See link below :~
There you would be able to view the original Marriage Registers for St. Michaels
“ Brereton cum Smethwick “

Then have a look around the entries before & after to see if those witnesses appear again if they do then this would indicate that they were part of the Church may be Church Wardens or Parish Clark.
Or Professional Witnesses….Yes some made a living out of this.
This would save you time trying to following up those wit's .
via Census......

Also you can check if further children were Baptised there.

Staffordshire Record Office
Eastgate Street
ST16 2LZ
By telephone:
(+44) 01785-278379
Archive enquiries
(+44) 01785-278373 Appointments
(+44) 01785-278380

Admin enquiries
By minicom: (+44) 01785-278376
By fax: (+44) 01785-278384

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Opening Hours

Monday,Tuesday & Thursday 9.00 am - 5.00 pm
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Saturday 9.00 am - 4.00 pm

Advance notice of closure : Staffordshire Record Office will be closed for essential electrical works on Friday 15 August and Saturday 16 August. We apologise for any inconvenience that this might cause.

Let us know how you get on.

MIKE. xx