Genealogy Chat

OMG, I think you have found the right family,
my grandmother Florence wedding certificate is witnessed by Edith M Stevens, so this would be her married surname so she Edith Mary Cross before marriage....it just has to be Florence sister, therefore on the right path to Florence who's correct age 27 & not 23 when married....This is fantastic news brought tears to my eyes...especially if it turns out that my Dad' surname was Felton...do you think i should order a copy of that birth certificate to see parents names???
Thank you so very much

Well, Edith M Cross didn't marry Charles A Stevens till 1919:

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Edith M Cross
Name: Edith M Cross
Spouse Surname: Stevens
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1919
Registration district: Plymouth
Registration county (inferred): Devon
Volume Number: 5b
Page Number: 588
Find Spouse: Find Spouse

So I'm not entirely convinced of anything yet.

Where was Edith M Cross in 1901 and 1911? In the latter year, passing herself off as the wife of Charles A Stevens?

Ah, ha, this could be her and him, and she has a daughter Florrie too:

STEVENS, Charlie Head Married M 32 1879 Carman Haulier London VIEW
STEVENS, Edith Wife Married
10 years F 29 1882 Devonport VIEW
STEVENS, Florrie Daughter Single F 10 1901 School Plymouth VIEW
STEVENS, Edith Daughter Single F 8 1903 School London VIEW
STEVENS, Gladdie Daughter Single F 6 1905 School Plymouth VIEW
STEVENS, Charlie Son Single M 4 1907 School Plymouth VIEW
STEVENS, Mellie Daughter Single F 2 1909 Plymouth VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
12981 Reference:
RG14PN12981 RG78PN749 RD276 SD3 ED5 SN67

Registration District:
Plymouth Sub District:
Plymouth South West Enumeration District:
5 Parish:
Plymouth

Address:
56 King St Plymouth County:
Devonshire

1901 England Census
about Charles Stevens
Name: Charles Stevens
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1879
Gender: Male
Where born: Lambeth, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Devonport
Ecclesiastical parish: Stoke Damerel St Andrew
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: Devonport
Sub-registration district: St Aubyn
ED, institution, or vessel: Granby Parade and Old and New Gramby Barracks and Devon Militia Artillery Depot and Staff and NCO Qu
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members: Name Age

Charles Stevens 22 - Imagine says Charlie. Married. Army Service Corps. With about 40 other men.

So he met Edith shortly after the 1901 census, and by 1911 they pretended they were married, but possibly Charlie's first wife was still alive.

Seems like this is your Edith and Charlie, and your Florence lied about her age on marriage.

Only certificates can prove it, of Edith's children, or of the marriage of Edith and Charles. But let's not worry about that right now.

If I were you, I could not resist getting the birth of Thomas Harold Felton. It might not be the right person, or we might not be able to "tie him up" with the family, but he doesn't appear on the 1911 census as Thomas Harold Felton, and he doesn't die before then.

It is seeming more than likely that he was adopted. Informally back then.

The cert might tell us nothing. Or it might enable us to discount him. I don't think you have a choice, but to get it.

Margaret

I thought this had already been posted, but here is Edith possibly in 1901:

1901 England Census
about Edith Cross
Name: Edith Cross
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Devonport, Devon, England

Civil parish: East Stonehouse
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: East Stonehouse
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Registration district: East Stonehouse
Sub-registration district: East Stonehouse
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 168
Household Members: Name Age
M A Andrew 65 Widow
Edith Cross 19

Hi Margaret,

Thank you, i think you are right i should just order the birth certificate.
Many many thanks for all other info, looks like we had some dark horses in the family ;-)

I'm logging out now been searching all day and pestered my poor Mum & Florries daughter Gladys to bits today but they don't seem to know very much. I will order the certificate first tho.

Angela

Well, it's good fun to have some dark horses in the family. I've only a few in mine, deadly boring!

Births Sep 1909
Felton Thomas Harold Plymouth 5b 219

Message from Angela.

Hello Vivienne

You were so very right...i ordered the birth certificate of above named...and the parents listed were

Florence Maud Felton formerly Cross &
Thomas Harold Felton
both of 3 Stafford Row, Granby Street, Plymouth
The birth date my father used was spot on 20th May 1909.

You really don't know how much this info means to us all in Northampton (my home town) as we have looked for many years with no luck....we owe you a drink if you ever in Northampton ;-)

Now i guess we need to trace to see if my new found Grandad has any other relatives and to find if the my dads parents did actually marry as i have been searching all evening and found nothing on either of them???

Do you use other search places to find info or just genes reunited...just wondering if i would be better to upgrade to Platinum...what do you think???

Thank you thank you thank you....you are brilliant ;-)



Let me just finish polishing my Halo...Rub rub,,yep,nice and shiny and bright now...Thank you Angela.

I use Freebmd,(which as it says is free and excellent as it is where I got Thomas Harolds birth)and Find my past and Ancestry as paid site.
I nor many others pay for records on here,we just pay our £9.95 every 6 months to be able to use the boards.

If you put the details of the marriage you are looking for on here I am sure we can give it a search for.

Fan

PS....What was Thomas Harold Feltons occupation on the birth cert please?

Hello,
We are all still amazed at the find after 32 years of on off looking ;-) our Dad had 17 children plus one from Mums previous marriage, sadly not all survived in early years but i am sure when i tell my 9 brothers & sisters they will be shocked after so long...
Moving on from this i am excited and want more info now...so i am trying to see if my grandmother Florence Maud Cross was married to Thomas Harold Felton, the details i have from my New Found Fathers Birth certificate are from Plymouth South West entry....
Father..Thomas Harold Felton
Occupation Merchant Seaman.
Address. 3 Stafford Row, Granby Street, Plymouth
Mother...Florence Maud Felton formerly Cross
When and where born was listed at same address....
Once i have this information i would like then to see if Thomas Harold Felton born 20th May 1909 (my father) had any brothers or sisters....and then if
Thomas Harold Felton (my Grandad) had any brothers and sisters and his parents etc etc...
:-) ;-) ;-)
Thank you so much FannyByGaslight for finding my Dad and also to MadMeg for helping me to twig whom my Grandmothers sister was and for sending further info to me.

I am so glad we encouraged you to get the cert - but it is Fanny's halo that is being polished right now, and I am doing the polishing!

I can do nothing more right now. Ancestry has chosen to switch me to Ancestry.com and I can't understand how to find anything.

Back later.

Margaret

Hi, Don't polish too hard we don't want her to disappear ;-)

I have been looking for about 5 hours today and have found nothing so am off to bed now as family party tomorrow.

Thanks for all good work ;-)

I have searched long and hard for a marriage and I dont think one will be found.
On her marriage to EKE she says she is a spinster, so,I think she lied about her marital status when she registered your fathers birth and the registrar would know no different would he?

In fact she could easily have made up a fathers name and occupation as well and "married"herself off to it.
I got 3 birth certs for a friends family and only one of them was in the maiden name of the mother ,on 2 she called herself mrs L*** and made up 2 different first names for her "husband"and 2 different occupations and yet all the children were born at the same address !
She never did marry anyone.

When the youngest son married in 1920 he put himself down as Ernst C*****,known as L*** on the marriage cert and they keep the made up surname to this day.

There are but 2 births of this name on Freebmd and both in Lancs.

Births Mar 1867
FELTON Thomas Harold W. Derby 8b 434
Births Sep 1888
FELTON Thomas Harold W Derby 8b 458

This is the 1867 one in 1911

FELTON, Thomas Harold Head Married M 44 1867 Music Hall Wage Hand Liverpool

Address:
35 Toft St: Holt Road L Pool

This is his marriage

Marriages Mar 1903
Bell Mary W. Derby 8b 802
Felton Thomas Harold W. Derby 8b 802

He is also on 1901 in Liverpool with occupation as "professional"

So I think we can rule him out as your grandfather..


I am finding no marriage or death for the one born in 1888 at the moment.

Hmmm,maybe?

Marriages Mar 1911
Davies Elias W Derby 8b 608
Felton Thomas H W. Derby 8b 608
Gardiner Honoria W.Derby 8b 608
Williams Jane W.Derby 8b 608

This is 1891census for the one born in 1888 and the father is a man of the sea as he is a pilot.(showed ships/boats the safe way into harbour,just in case you didnt know.:)

FELTON, William F Head Married M 33 1858 Liverpool Pilot
Liverpool
FELTON, Mary Wife Married F 29 1862
Liverpool
FELTON, William J Son Single M 9 1882
Liverpool
Lancashire
FELTON, Stephen F Son Single M 7 1884
Liverpool
Lancashire
FELTON, Charles E Son Single M 6 1885
Liverpool
Lancashire
FELTON, Mary J Daughter Single F 4 1887
Liverpool
Lancashire
FELTON, Thomas H Son Single M 2 1889
Liverpool
Lancashire
FELTON, Walter H Son Single M 1 1890
Liverpool
Lancashire
PARKINS, Charles Brother In Law Married M 35 1856 General Labourer
Liverpool
Lancashire
PARKINS, Annie M Sister In Law Married F 22 1869
Liverpool
Lancashire
RG number:
RG12 Piece:
2950 Folio:
96 Page:
21

Registration District:
West Derby Sub District:
South Everton Enumeration District:
40 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St John the Evangelist

Civil Parish:
Everton Municipal Borough:
Liverpool Address:
83, Woodville Terrace, Everton, Liverpool County:
Lancashire

He is still at home in 1901 but father away as Mary is Head of house but says married..


And nowhere to be found on 1911(by me anyway)

So looking like a good possible??

But here is his parents and other siblings in 1911 that were on 1901 with him plus the extra one born 1902

FELTON, William James S Head Married
33 years M 53 1858 Liverpool Pilot Lpool Lancashire
FELTON, Mary Wife Married F 49 1862 Lpool Lancashire
FELTON, Lucy Mabel Daughter Single F 17 1894 Lpool Lancashire
FELTON, Gertrude Voilet Daughter F 14 1897 Lpool Lancashire
FELTON, George Albert Son M 12 1899 School Lpool Lancashire
FELTON, Stanley Ernest Son M 9 1902 School Lpool Lancashire

Registration District:
West Derby Sub District:
Fazakerley Enumeration District:
1 Parish:
Fazakerley

Address:
18 Chapel Avenue Fazakerley Liverpool County:
Lancashire



I think the Merchant Navy records will have be sought after to see if he is on any of them.
They are difficult to access I have heard and I am no great shakes at searching for them.
A bit of info on how to...

http://www.merchantnavyofficers.com/MNRecords.html




The marriage in 1911 from Lancsbmd

FELTON Thomas H GARDINER Honoria West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool

And I cant find them on 1911 census,but they married before census was taken on April 2nd..

Hi,
Brill i will see what i can find out via that web site.
If he was around Plymouth port area then its very likely to be him...and i guess you are right about the marriage being false as it seems Florence sister Edith did the same but they did eventually marry, which Florence could not as she married in 1910.
xx

Angela.
Just a thought.........
If you get this marriage of Felton/Gardiner in 1911

Marriages Mar 1911
Felton Thomas H W. Derby 8b 608
Gardiner Honoria W.Derby 8b 608

it may say that he is a Merchant Navy man?

Then again it may not,or not even be Thomas Harold Senior.
But for the £9.25p you can know for sure.

I would if it were me,but that is me as I HATE not knowing with my lot.

Me too, i have ordered it...so be in touch soon.
Angela x

I do love people that go that bit further and buy the certs to find out if it is them,it happens so often that they wont,so its a real pleasure to try and help you Angela.

Hello again,

I.ve not yet received the certificates i ordered but being eager to find out more i decided as the name Honoria was unusual i searched for her then Thomas & found them both on Brians tree...so i wrote to him and this is Brians reply........
marriage of Honoria Gardiner and Thomas Harold Fenton in 1911 at The Church of the Blessed Sacrament in Walton, Liverpool.

25 January 1911 Thomas Harold Felton, aged 22 Bachelor, occupation is Seaman (Royal Navy Reserve) address is 11 Cavendish Road, Walton. Father William James Felton, Pilot. Honoria Gardiner aged 22 Spinster, no occupation same address. Father is Thomas Gardiner, Railway pointsman. Witnesses are Rosanna and William Broadfoot, Honoria's sister and brother-in-law.

So can you see if he is listed at this address on the Census of 1911 or suggest where i go next....i have also written to another tree owner who's DOB is a year difference but his surname is Felton...as yet i have not had a reply...
This is so exciting !!!

117 GARDNER, Thomas Head Married M 58 1853 Railway Signalman Seaman R N R Ormskirk Lancs VIEW
117 GARDNER, Jane Wife Married
24 years F 58 1853 Ormskirk Lancs VIEW
117 HAROLD, Thomas Son In Law Married M 23 1888 Lancs Liverpool VIEW
117 GETTON, Monoln Daughter Married F 23 1888 Lancs Liverpool VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
22369 Reference:
RG14PN22369 RG78PN1321 RD455 SD4 ED13 SN117

Registration District:
West Derby Sub District:
Walton Enumeration District:
13 Parish:
Walton on the Hill

Address:
11 Cavendish Road Walton L'pool County:
Lancashire

The wife, Jane, is recorded as a Seaman. R N R. I assume the entry should be against Thomas Harold. The surname of his wife could be Gelton or Felton, the handwriting is very scratchy.

I guess this is him.

I can't really improve on his wife's forename from the image.

EDIT she looks like Monolia, which I suppose could be Honoria. Thomas Gardner is clearly not a good writer.