Genealogy Chat

just read through all this again and realised we have not mentioned the father's occupations from the Joseph/Alice marriage certificate. (unless I missed it!)

Do they help at all when comparing them to the 1841 census

The marriage cerrt lists the fathers occupation as Weaver, and on the 1841 cencus for Henry/Ellen it is Silk weaver and on Henry/Betty its cotton weaver.
I said I was leaving it but can't!!!! I have read through again and there is a tenuous link: Mary says Alice brother may be Peter, blacksmith and it could be that is the occupation given on 1841 census, it is very blurred but not impossible, he married and had a child Simon Peter cook.
Alice married Joseph Duckworth and their daughter Elizabeth married Peter Callon, they called one of their children Simon Peter.
Do you think this may be a connection?

can't remember which board it was but I did a search for Elizabeth Duckworth and remember noticing the name Simon Peter. I think it was a fairly old thread.

How unobliging of Henry not to say what type of weaver he was on the marriage certificate!

I f I remember rightly without reading thu again was Peter (blacksmith) brother of Alice not the one who was the illegitimate son of Ellen Cook?

Hi LA, when I read through again mary had found two Peter Cooks one was born Aston and was coal miner on 1861 a widower I am sort of assuming he was the child of Ellen, the other was a blacksmith on 1841 census, now on the original image it is very blurred but may say blacksmith they lived at Gustavious Hillock and on 1871 and 81 he lives there too, after a move to church street on 1851 and when he died he left money in his will to his son Simon Peter.

It still seems a long shot, I am searching trees for possible connection through the various marriages. thank for your help. M

Simon peter cooke 1854 married ? 1877 to Elizabeth Mort they had Harold james cooke 1878 he married Agnes Heaton born 1881 married 1902 he died 1943 in Wigan.

Archibald Peter Cooke 1883 died Liverpool 1959 he married 1905 to lucy Robinson.

1901 Simon peter is now Peter Simon Cooke clerk with wife Sarah Ellen born 1862 in Shrewsbury.
Address Abram Lancs d 5 > 12

1911 28,Wallace Lane Wigan

Simon Peter Cooke is Comercial Clerk-Musician 1854 died 1930
Sarah Ellen married 23years.Born Shrewsbury Shropshire.
Charlotte Gertrude 22 married 1915??to Thomas Marsden
John Samuel 1890/2 maybe married 1920 Jeannie C Bentley
Frederick bennett Cooke 1897.
Evelyn Mabel 1898 married ?? 1921 John Davis.
It says 6 children to present marriage 2 died.

1891 census Haydock d11> 52
Peter Callon 32
Elizabeth Callon 32
Simon peter Callon 1889.
also there is Joseph Duckworth relative age 35.

1911 7,Haydock Street Wigan
Joseph Callon 1881 miner
Elizabeth married 4yrs born 1887
Peter 1909
Simion/Simon Peter 1911
Simion/Simon Peter Callon brother born 1889.

I thought I might aswell post this just incase they are connected.

Maryb

This maybe Simon Peter Callon born 1888 died Pontefract 1963.

Married to Winifred Gill/Davies 1920 pontefract.

Married Evelyn R Alder 1936 Pontefract they had a boy and a girl.



Winifred Callon died Pontefract 1952 age 73 = 1879.

Maryb


Edit I have sent you a P.M

Hi
Something else you could try is to post a message on the Roots web mailing list for Wigan.
This is the link
http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ENG/ENG-LAN-WIGAN.html

You have to subscribe but some of these lists can be really helpful as many local people subscribe to them and have access to parish records etc.

There is a submitted record of an Ann Cook marrying a William Adamson c 1834. The Adamson children are on the 1841 with Henry and Betty.
Ann is Alice's sister so it might be worth finding the marriage to check witnesses just in case there is a connection.
Good luck
Von

Hi thanks Von I will look at what you have recommended.

Mary thanks for the information and the PM, I am trying to determine if any other GR Members have trees containing the same people. My interest in Simon Peter Cook, son of Peter Cook who was brother to Alice, and Simon Peter Callon c1888 is to see if there is a connection with Alice Cook and more importantly her ancestors.
The Simon Peter you have found married to Evelyn Alder in 1936 was my father-in-laws brother born c 1911 grandson to Peter Callon and Elizabeth Duckworth, who was the daughter of Joseph Duckworth and Alice Cook. It is extremely difficult to determine which Alice Cook is the relative., But many thanks for trying.

Hi Von just to let you know that I found a marriage William Adamson to Ann Cook on 20th Oct 1833 St. Oswald, Winwick.

Witness was William Norbury and George H Walker, can't see an immediate connection but I will dig deeper and check it out.
Many thanks for the nudge to look for this one. M.

Hi
Fingers crossed there may be some connection.
I still think the baptism records will be your best bet to compare addresses.
Which address does Alice give on her marriage certificate?
Von

Hi,
dear Alice is about as helpful as her father when he put "weaver" as his occupation, her place of residence, and her hubby Joseph's, is given as "Ashton" So I am assuming that this means Ashton in Makerfield? Married at the parish church of Winwick.

Hi, all, I am back again like the bad penny!!
I hope some helpers will read this post, cos it is not a duplicate but a follow on to the saga of the family of Alice Cook
Two Alice's. both with father Henry cook one with mother Betty Heaton one with mother Ellen Whittle.
In 1844 my Alice married Joseph Duckworth she is on 1851 census as Alice Duckworth, and I have marriage cert.
I have found an entry on 1851 census for Henry Cook Widow, late silk weaver and his daughter ALICE as housekeeper, there is also a James Whittle (lodger) with grand daughter ELLEN. On the same household there is a John Smith, Lodger who also appears on 1841 census in the household of Henry and ELLEN Cook . On both 1841 and 1851 the household is at Lowton. I would appreciate your opinion as to whether I can take this family to be of Henry Cook and Ellen Whittle, and MY Alice is therefore the daughter of Henry Cook and Betty Heaton. Sorry to be long winded but I do so want to crack this one as it has driven me nuts!!
many thanks M.

just posting to say your latest has been read (and to nudge it up) but I think I need to go and increase my sugar levels before thinking about this one!

Hi LancashireAnn,
thanks for reading my rambles, I would really appreciate some help here! I know what you mean about suger levels, maybe a glass of the old vino might help too.....!! M

I wish - I had to go to a meeting tonight, held in a pub but I was driving! Maybe that's what I need now though

did we ever find any wills for Henry / Alice / Ellen / Betty - I can't remember if I looked in the record office

We did not find a will but "mary" found one for Peter Cook, blacksmith who she believed was the brother of Alice cook (mother Betty Heaton)" who left some money to his son Simon Peter, this gave a tenuous link with regard to the name as at some point the name Simon Peter appeared within our decendents linked to the duckworths (our Alice married Joseph Duckworth) so I am not sure how much help that info is really.

Do you think it might be worth obtaining Ellen Cook (formerly Whittle's death cert, I am not sure what it would tell me?

Hi Wellybobs
I do think it might be worth getting Ellen Cook's death certificate to see the informant.
Do you have Betty Cook's death certificate?
Alice may have been with them when they died.
Of course it is a bit of a long shot but on the other hand may be the vtal link.
Good luck
Von

I suppose the informant might be helpful, it might say 'Alice Duckworth - daughter'

Hi,
Yes I am going to get Ellen Cooks DC I must admit that I never thought about Betty cooks, she is on the 1851 census as a widow, so it may be that her daughter or son in law was the informant in which case it could be duckworth.

thanks for that new thought I will get onto that. But please keep thinking cos I MUST sort this, it is driving me to distraction, and on top of that I have given up the old vino for Lent.!!! M

Hi Wellybobs
Well I've looked again at the census and unless I'm missing something this is what I think.
In 1841 you have an Alice Cook with parents Henry and Betty
HO107 Piece:524 Book/Folio:2/5 Page:3 in Ashton In Makerfield
By 1851 Betty is a widow and I think this is the Alice who married Joseph Duckworth.
In 1851 Alice is also in Ashton In Makerfield living either with or beside Betty.
The other Alice with parents Henry and Ellen is still with her father in 1851 and he is a widower.Also still with his father is brother Henry.
There are 2 possible deaths for Ellen Cook on FreeBMD
Dec 1842 in Wigan
Jun 1845 in Wigan
Are there any other Alice's we should be looking at?
I couldn't find a baptism for Henry son of Henry and Ellen but this might be worth looking at.
Von