Genealogy Chat

Jax

I'll get there in the end!! :-(

I did not say you should NOW continue on this thread as this one is now serplus to requirements

I was only saying that had you used this one when you returned last week, people would not have wasted their time looking for info that had already been found

This often happens, and as you say, there is no easy answer. I suppose ideally the thread owner could:

- cut and paste all the info from both threads into a word document in such a way as to summarise the info to date without losing any of the detail (!)
- delete both original threads and
- repost to a new thread

but you might then lose some of the context, and some of those who posted replies might feel that their comments were misrepresented.

Alternatively you could edit the first post of each thread with a clear reference to the other thread?

Good luck!!

Hi MarieCeleste

Yes that was the thread, that I posted inadvertently and got severely rebuked for doing so. I didn't know what I should have done subsequently, sorry for that.
Thanks

Anthony

Anthony - if Catherine recently found a birth then where is it? Do you have another thread?

More often that not the father's name is not recorded when illegitimate but you'd need to get a copy of the cert to check.

EDIT: This is the thread you should have updated:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1312345?page=0

If you use the "My Threads" link on the left of these pages then you can select the most appropriate.

Hopefully I have got this right this time????????????????
Re entry on 07 Jan 2011 concerning my gt grandfather's misdeamours. On 13 Oct 2012 Catherine miraculously found a birth of an illigitimate daughter named Caroline to Martha Reeves in the Bethnal Green Workhouse c13 Mar 1890. I have done a search on Caroline on Ancestry and find no obvious record of the child after the bpt record of the workhouse..
Can anyone please advise me whether b.certs of illigitimate children are likely to contain the father's name, also where workhouse records may be accessed or how I could do a census search on the workouse as opposed to an individual ?

Jax
Thanks a lot. I have tried to do a basic search on the 1911 but getting nowhere whatsoever. Wonder what became of Mabel Sawyer who I now see was registered Edith Mabel Sawyer? Also wonder if she even had a child, that could have been just a ruse. note that Isabel provides Carlisle as a birthplace on the 1911as opposed to Durham and still uses her maiden name as well. Time for a bit more digging I guess??

Tony

1911 census - household transcription
Person: SAWYER, Isabel
Address: 94 Grovelands Road Reading


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RAIN, John David Head Married M 47 1864 House Agent Carlisle Cumberland VIEW
RAIN, Amelia Susan Wife Married
18 years F 44 1867 Reading Berks VIEW
RAIN, Reginald Vernon Son M 14 1897 School Caversham Oxon VIEW
RAIN, Robert William Son M 6 1905 Caversham Oxon VIEW
RAIN, Mary Susie Daughter F 1 1910 Reading Berks VIEW
SAWYER, Isabel Visitor Single F 40 1871 Carlisle Cumberland VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Patchem

Thank you for your reply. I have just been looking at the census of 1891 before coming back here as well as the BMD. Closer scrutiny of the census shows that the family surname was mis-transcribed and should have read Sawyer not Sanger. Their mother Jane Sawyer is still in Camberwell in 1901 shown to have been widowed with some of her children and Isabella's daughter Dora Baker. Isabella married Charles Baker in 1890. Neither Mabel or Isabella appear on the 1901 in their own names.

Tony

No obvious Mabel Sanger (from around Carlisle area and birth around 1879) or Isabella Sanger (from around Durham area and birth around 1879) showing on 1911.
Marriage?

I have just discovered a similarity in the names of the 'other' woman and her sister in the 1901 census purported to be Powell's wife and sister inlaw , with two women living in Camberwell in 1891. The 1891 census has a Mabel Sanger b Carlisle c1879 and her sister Isabella b Durham c1870. Apart from the surnames these women are identical. I can only see two females being born 1st qtr of 1901 whereas Mabel supposedly had a son. Neither Mabel or Isabella Sanger appear on the 1901 census in those names. I would appreciate it if anyone has access to the 1911 census if they could please do a look up for me on Mabel and Isabella Sanger, should there be a chance of ID a child. Thanks.

Hello Jax

Yes I realise that there was a possibility of the child dying, but according to the piece in the newspaper Martha Reeves gave evidence that she and Powell had been on intimate terms for 'some time' so the child needn't have been a baby, albeit there were no signs of the child on the 1891? I did try to do a follow up on Orlando Belueci and as far as I can remember he and his parents emigrated to the USA , but I didn't keep a record of my research.

Tony

If the Child was born after the 1891 census it could have sadly died by 1901??

That Orlando born 1901 still interests me, as he is the only one I can see being born in the right area right time

jax

HI Jax and Choccy

I had noticed the granddaughter Alice Tong myself and wondered whose child she was, but the info Choccy turned up re Jane Elizabeth Reeve being Tong's wife answers that, thank you. The piece in the Reynolds newspaper suggested that in 1892 Martha was living in Leyton; also in the 1901 with her mother and a few adult siblings
Tony

1901

TONG, James Alfred Head Married M 42 1859 Stamp Cutter Metal
Tottenham
Middlesex VIEW
TONG, Jane Elizabeth Wife Married F 39 1862
Bethnal Green
London VIEW
>>>>>TONG, Alice Jane Daughter F 14 1887
Tottenham
Middlesex VIEW
TONG, Ethel May Daughter F 12 1889
Tottenham
Middlesex VIEW
TONG, Hector Baden Son M 0 (8 MOS) 1901
Tottenham
Middlesex VIEW
TONG, Lily Grace Daughter F 4 1897
Tottenham
Middlesex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
1246 Folio:
95 Page:
4

Registration District:
Edmonton Sub District:
Tottenham Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:
All Hallows

Civil Parish:
Tottenham Municipal Borough:
Address:
20, Wingmore Road, Tottenham County:
Middlesex



Marriages Dec 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reeve Jane Elizabeth W.Ham 4a 86
TONG James Alfred W. Ham 4a 86

1891

Name: Jane E Reeves
Age: 52
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Mile End, London, England

Civil Parish: Leyton
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Leyton
ED, institution, or vessel: 34
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Jane E Reeves 52
Margann Reeves 26
Martha E Reeves 24
Christiana C Reeves 20
Jepe A Reeves 17
Louie H Reeves 15
Alice E Reeves 11
John F Reeves 8
Alice I Tong 4


Alice Tong is grandaughter do you know who she belongs to? found her with parents on 1901 Jane E Tong

Hi Jax

Have looked at that 1901 Orlando Bellueci before and not really been able to link him. The latest child dates back to 1892.

Tony

This looks like the Orlando born in 1901 although there is no other person with this surname or is it seen again??

Name: Orlando Bellueci
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Saviour Southwark
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 50 (click to see others on page)

When I thought things couldn't get worse with this man, I discover a court attendance at Stratford Police Court reported in Reynolds newspaper 03/01/1892 where a single woman Martha Reeves brought a case against Orlando Powell; professor of music, for financial support for their illigimate child. Seemingly she was allegedly residing with her sister in Leyton. There is a Martha E Reeve on both the 1891 and 1901 census residing with her mother Jane E Reeve in Leyton, but no reference to a child of hers. Any ideas please how one can confirm the identity of this woman and her child.

Hello Guys

Sorry but just got off the phone. Yes all posts relate to him. His true wife was Mary Annette Soller. His Death cert shows the inofrmant as M .Hodges??? There is a child named Orlando about that time but does not fit. You could be right Jonesey, albeit it his true wife seems to have bought a house in Catford at the time of his death. Found an obituary but it does not mention details of family etc. Thanks for all your suggestions.