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Sailor to Shipwright is it possible?

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Stuart Report 16 Apr 2013 23:14

The family by 1901 - George and Robert the youngest sons are in the Liverpool Seaman Orphan Institution

1901 census transcription details for: 106, Teulon Street, Kirkdale

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 3465
Folio: 140
Page: 38
Reg. District: West Derby
Sub District: Kirkdale
Parish: Kirkdale
Enum. District: 5
Ecclesiastical District: St Mary's
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 106, Teulon Street, Kirkdale
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MILLER, Sarah Head Widow F 48 1853 CharwomanScotland Aberdeen
MILLER, John Son Single M 25 1876 Ship Carpenter Scotland Aberdeen
MILLER, Sarah Daughter Single F 24 1877 Preserve Works Scotland Aberdeen
MILLER, William Son Single M 20 1881 Ship Scalers Liverpool, Lancashire
MILLER, Donald Son Single M 17 1884 Ship Scalers Liverpool, Lancashire

and I wonder if this is 1883 JAmes ??
1901 census transcription details for: 46, Othello Street, Kirkdale

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 3471
Folio: 90
Page: 21
Reg. District: West Derby
Sub District: Kirkdale
Parish: Kirkdale
Enum. District: 40
Ecclesiastical District: St Pauls
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: 46, Othello Street, Kirkdale
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
MITCHELL, Mary Wife Married F 63 1838 England
MILLER, Ellen Head Married F 45 1856 Liverpool, Lancashire
MILLER, James Son Single M 20 1881 Ships Carpenter Liverpool, Lancashire
MILLER, James Nephew Single M 17 1884 Ships Carpenter Liverpool, Lancashire <<<

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 23:16

Hi Stuart

that's them. Do you still think it's the same family - even though the father's name has changed from James to John?

Thanks, Lou

Thank you Andysmum.

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 23:24

Hi Stuart, Wow, thanks for finding the boys.

I also found James (nephew) living with an aunt and wondered the same thing,.

It's good to know you've also found them, gives me hope that I'm on the correct trail. It never occurred to me to look for the boys I just assumed they had died. The business with the christian name change for the father from John / James has confused me somewhat and I keep going over all I've found.

Thanks Stuart it's added a bit more meat. You obviously think it's the same family.



Stuart Report 16 Apr 2013 23:40

If you say that the 1881 Scottish census is correct then you are looking at 2 different families. They can't be in Scotland and Liverpool at the same time.

Also - Sarah the mother in Scotland is born in Ireland whilst the Sarah in Liverpool is born Scotland (Aberdeen if you chase her through to 1911)

1911 census transcription details for: 59 Cockerell St Dirkdale Liverpool

National Archive Reference:
RG14PN22447 RG78PN1323 RD455 SD6 ED4 SN107
Reg. District: West Derby
Sub District: Kirkdale
Parish: Kirkdale
Enum. District: 4
Address: 59 Cockerell St Dirkdale Liverpool
County: Lancashire
Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
MILLER, James Son Single M 29 1882 Shipwright Seagoing W Star Co Lancs Lpool Eng
MILLER, Donald Son Single M 26 1885 Unemployed Dock Labourer Lancs Lpool Eng
MILLER, Sarah Hay Mother Widow F 60 1851 Invalid Inward Aberbury*** Scotland Resident

***Aberdeen on original. Incorrectly completed to say married 37 years, 10 children born, 2 have since died

Sorry but have to leave it there until morning. Hopefully someone will be able to help you out.

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 16 Apr 2013 23:44

No problem Stuart, but thank you so much for your terrific help.

I'd like to wish you good luck in your own hunting, and thanks again,

Lou x :-)


Potty Report 17 Apr 2013 12:27

Noticing Sarah's middle name in the 1911, I wonder if this could be her marriage:

Sarah Hay, "Scotland, Marriages, 1561-1910"

Name: John Miller
Birth Date:
Spouse's Name: Sarah Hay
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 11 Jul 1873
Event Place: Saint Nicholas,Aberdeen,Aberdeen,Scotland

And this is possibly the birth of the oldest child, Jane,

Name: Jane Ann Miller Family Tree
Gender: Female
Christening Date:
Christening Place:
Birth Date: 26 Oct 1873
Death Date:
Name Note:
Father's Name: John Miller
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Sarah Hay
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11168-3
System Origin: Scotland-ODM
GS Film number: 6035516
Reference ID

both of these records are from familysearch site.

There is a birth for a James Miller in the same area on scotlandspeople, the birth registration will give you his parents' names and the date and place of their marriage:

No Year Surname Forename Sex District City/
Data Image Extract


Potty Report 17 Apr 2013 12:44

Just noticed that the marriage cert you have for James b1883 gives his father's name as James, not John and that the occupation is ship's steward. I wonder if you have followed back the correct family.

~Looby Loo~

~Looby Loo~ Report 17 Apr 2013 21:16

Hi Potty,

That's absolutely brilliant, I did search for them yesterday with no luck, but I have been informed that they change their database every 6 weeks, so I'm wondering if this is the reason you found them and also explain why sometimes I can find my own family and sometimes I can't.

I suspected that her maiden name was Hay.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure I am following the right family, there are quite a few James who were shipwrights / ships carpenters / sailors but none of them say Ships Steward. I did notice that the father's name on the census I was following was John and not James, but just considered the fact that because his son was named James it avoided confusion, plus some people use a 2nd name as a 1st name. My grandfather was called John but he was only known as Jack so anyone who knew him after he married only ever knew him as Jack, especially when they moved area, so it's just possible the same in this instance.

The only thing for sure is that his name was James Miller single in 1931 aged 48 and he married in Liverpool and that his father was also named James a ship's steward.

I have searched for a James matching him and came across a family in Liverpool whose parents & some siblings originated in Scotland with a connection to a ship. I have tried to find any family connection to either witness with no luck. I searched the names and came across one that was born in the same area (Warrington) where the groom died so wondered if the family moved there, but again after his death his wife remarried in West Derby - so that didn't quite fit either.

But thanks again, it's very much appreciated,

Regards, Lou