Genealogy Chat

Re Annie possibly being Donald's mother -

circumstantial "evidence"? - just random thoughts -
at some time between 1881 and 1891 the sisters moved from the Isle of Wight to Oxford. Possibly after their father's death in 1886, and they would then have been financially independent - as stated in censuses - and able to live where they wanted. Possibly when Donald was expected ??

He was born in Bristol - a long way from both IoW and Oxford, where nobody would know Annie ??

http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/index.php

(above can be useful IOW, if her below)

1851 ISAACSON Annie Elizabeth STOKES Calbourne Ca5/P69


Marriages Jun 1840 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------------------------
ISAACSON John Frederick Tamworth 16 492
STOKES Rebecca Tamworth 16 492

Chris :)

Cambridge University Alumni, 1261-1900 (Ancestry)

Name: John Frederick. Isaacson
College: ST JOHN'S
Entered: Michs. 1821
Died: 19 Aug 1886

More Information:
Adm. pens. at ST JOHN'S, July 8, 1820. [2nd] s. of the Rev. John (1786), of Suffolk. [B. Oct. 15, 1801.] School, Norwich. Matric. Michs. 1821; Bell Scholar, 1822; B.A. (Senior Classic) 1825; 1st Chancellor's medal, 1825; M.A. 1828; B.D. 1835. Fellow and tutor. Lecturer (at that time designated ‘tutor’) at King's, 1829-39. Ord. deacon (Ely) May 29, 1825; priest, Nov. 5, 1826. R. of Freshwater, Isle of Wight, 1839-86. Hon. Canon of Winchester, 1874-86. Married, May 13, 1840, Rebecca, dau. of H. Stokes, of Tamworth. Died Aug. 19, 1886, at Freshwater. Father of the next two. (St John's Coll. Adm., IV. 327; Eagle, XIV. 236; Foster, Index Eccles.; Clergy List; Crockford, 1886; The Guardian, Aug. 25, 1886, which says, ‘He was…elected also Tutor (sic) of King's, probably the first time in which the latter post had been held by one who was not an old Etonian’; G. Mag., 1840, II. 89; J. Saltmarsh.)


Name: Isaacson . John Frederick.
College: ST JOHN'S
Entered: Michs. 1860
BORN: 1842
Died: 15 Mar 1885

More Information:
Adm. pens. at ST JOHN'S, June 13, 1860. [Elder] s. of the Rev. John Frederick (above) [and Rebecca]. B. [1842], at Freshwater, Isle of Wight. Bapt. Mar. 27, 1842. [School, Charterhouse.] Matric. Michs. 1860. Migrated to St Mary Hall, Oxford, whence he matric. Oct. 18, 1862, age 20. Lived at Linton, Cambs. Married and had issue. Died Mar. 15, 1885, at Shanghai. Brother of the next. (List of Carthusians; Al. Oxon.; The Guardian, June 3, 1885.)


Baptism
County Suffolk
Place Lidgate
Church name St Mary
Register type Transcript
Baptism date 15 Oct 1801
Birth date 13 Oct 1801
Person forename John Frederik
Person sex M
Father forename John
Father surname ISAACSON
Mother forename Catherine
Mother surname ISAACSON
Register note Rev John ISAACSON

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


Edits (various newspaper items, regarding Father)


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C706530

(Lieutenant Donald Esme ISAAC-INNES. Royal Engineers.)

AG- We're having thoughts along the same lines.

I only see the transcription of the baptism (19th December 1888) for Donald. Can anybody see the original? I was wondering if the address was the same as on the birth certificate.

Adverts in the newspapers indicate there were apartments/ rooms to rent at 9 Melrose Place around the time of Donald's birth.

also- wanted ads in Dec 1887 & Jan 1888 for ' Strong, clean, county girl, about 17"- apply Mrs Margrate 9 Melrose Place. Did the strong clean country girl get pregnant?

Hopefully I'll get time to look at this in more detail tomorrow.

Name: Donald Esme Isaacs
Baptism Date: 19 Dec 1888
Baptism Place: Clifton, St John the Evangelist, Gloucestershire, England
Father: Donald Isaacs
Mother: Anne Isaacs

but no image to view

Thomas Prosser Margrate 1844-1923 at 9,Melrose Place 1881/91/1901/11 until his death.

Maryb

Interestingly Donald returned to his birthplace in 1913 as an Assistant Lecturer in Geology at Bristol Univ. At the outbreak of the Great War he enlisted as a Dispatch Rider and was commissioned into the RE in 1915. He returned to Bristol Univ. after WW1 1919.
He was appointed Lecturer in Geology at St Andrews a year later.In 1927 he was given the status of Reader and in 1936 appointed Chair....
(Taken from report in Citizen Newspaper Saturday 24 10 1936)

Where does the name INNES come from......

Looking on freebmd to see if Donald was indexed with any other surname, it is interesting to note that on the same page and quarter there is a child with a similar sounding surname....................... probably no link, but it is a coincidence.

Births Dec 1888

ENNIS Ethel May ...... Barton R..... 6a 60
ISAACS Donald Esme ............. Barton R..... 6a 60

Yes, I think that's a coincidence, Gwyn.

Ethel May was the daughter of George Walter Ennis and Bessie Ann Fisher, and had two older siblings as at 1891 and 1901.

Have just read through this, and find myself thinking along the same lines as Andrew and AG .................. Annie as the possible mother

Am I right that the Baptism records show the actual signatures of the parents. In which case I could compare the signature of Anne Isaacs with Annie Isaacson (which I think I have). If Annie is in fact the mother this would still leave a question as to the father. Logic suggests that it would be Donald or Stewart Innes but a (brief) search this morning did not reveal any outstanding candidates.

I wonder if Annie or Catherine's Will reveals anything?
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#calendar

Name: Annie Elizabeth Isaacson
Death Date: 25 Nov 1931
Death Place: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Probate Date: 21 Dec 1931
Registry: Oxford, England

ISAACSON Annie Elizabeth of 23 Lathbury Road, Oxford Spinster died 25 Novemebr 1931 Probate Oxford 21 December to Catherine Sarah Isaacson spinster. Effects £3264
-------------------------------------------------

Name: Catherine Sarah Isaacson
Death Date: 21 Jun 1939
Death Place: Fife, Scotland
Probate Date: 25 Jul 1939
Registry: Oxford, England

ISAACSON Catherine Sarah of Lade Braes Villa St Andrews Fifeshire spinster died 21 June 1939 at Craigmount Nursing Home The Scores Saint Andrews Probate Oxford 25 July to Donald Esme Innes professor of geology Effects £6517 in England.

St. Andrews Citizen - Saturday 24 June 1939
ISAACSON - On 21st June 1939, at St Andrews, Catherine Sarah, last surviving child of the late Canon Isaacson of Freshwater, Isle-of-Wight, aged 84.

I don't think the baptism record will have signatures. They are normally just an entry in the parish record recording the date, parent names, and abode.

I just sent this by private message- but it's probably easier if it's all kept on the board:

Who was the informant on the birth certificate? If it was the mother, her signature should be on the original birth certificate from the local registry office.

You need to be careful though as some registry offices just copy (write or type) the information from the original, whereas some offices photocopy the original. If you don't have the original it might be worth checking.

Mother was the informant - unfortunately not an original signature

Had another look - the birth certificate does look original and the signature although similar to the rest of the certificate is also very similar to that of Annie Isaacson. Not conclusive either way...

It seems reasonable to assume that the father's surname was Innes - definitely a Scottish name.

However, having tried any combination of Esme, Stewart, and Innes (any of which could be either a surname or first name) I can't see any likely person.

EDIT:
and Donald!

Of course, he might not have been living anywhere near either Bristol, IoW, or Oxfordshire at the time of any census.

Perhaps father was Daniel- I believe Daniel/ Donald are often interchangeable.

Not that it helps!

I agree Innes is the likely surname as it was added to Isaacs in the 1891 census and was on its own by the 1901 census with no sign of Isaacs anymore. However I also am struggling to find likely candidates - it is difficult with so little info!

Unfortunately no-one left alive who can help. My Dad who was 7 when the younger sister died only knows that there was something in the past that no-one talked about!

And that Mary Rebecca Isaacson, elder Sister, I bet she knew a few things too, lol, seems to take over head of household, 1891, Brighton, with Eustace Fane Bouchier, a Lieut. General (retired) with Royal Engineers, his death 1902, she is then at 30, Warnborough Road, Oxford with Sisters, and a Bouchier girl, her Death there 1914...

(notes Bouchier family 1861 Freshwater, so probably remained friends)

https://tinyurl.com/y7mwgmn5

(The Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal: The Mortimer-Percy Volume
https://books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0788418726
The Marquis of Ruvigny and Ranieval - 2013 - ?History
Eustace Fane Bourchier, Lieut.-Gen. R.E...)

(Mary a couple of newspaper items)

Chris :)

(imagination works overtime!, lol)

Despite the name change his father still listed as Donald Isaacs on school register 1903:-

Institution: Repton School
Volume title: Repton School Register, Pub 1905
Year: 1903
Town: Repton
County: Derbyshire
Country: England

Innes- Donald Esme Isaacs- Sept 1903
s, of late Donald Isaacs. b. Nov 22, 1888. c/o The Misses Isaacson, 30, Warnborough Rd, Oxford