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Birth Certs,Adoptions and index question.Latest ne

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 25 Jan 2006 11:49

The thought that went through my mind was discrimination,maybe it sounds a little dramatic,but it is based on his perception of what is or isn't acceptable and what i can or would be willing to provide. I know he has certain obligations to fulfill,but if i were in his shoes i would be more concerned about security and safety than whether a certificate 'proves' identity. At this rate with the way things are i'll be claiming stress related compensation.(just kiddng) Union involvement could well be an option,never been a huge fan of the union but justsometimes they do have a use,for me at any rate. Glen

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 25 Jan 2006 11:52

Hi Glen, That is why I asked if the other employees had also had to produce their full certificate. If they have not, then you are certainly being discriminated against. Every prospective employee should be treated in exactly the same way, regardless of race, colour, sex, religion AND adoptive status. Liz x

Jess Bow Bag

Jess Bow Bag Report 25 Jan 2006 11:57

personally , i'd be shoving the post adoption cert - short- under his nose, if it isnt enough, ask why, and take legal advice at the CAB. Alice

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 25 Jan 2006 12:05

Hi again Liz, I had missed your post about the other employees,apparently it is 'company policy'. Maybe they have come across this before and the other employee(s) never questioned it,the part that really bugs me though is the 'requirement' gives disclosure about persons other rhan myself,who have no connection to the job or the company. I can't honestly see any logical or legal reason why the document that he will accept should have to be the long version.He can't give me a reason at the moment. It's all quite amicable at the moment,but it makes you wonder what he will gain from knowing my 'parentage' so to speak. I have to nip to the factory my other half works in,16 different nationalities all working through agencies. AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH again.

Jess Bow Bag

Jess Bow Bag Report 25 Jan 2006 12:06

so, he wants a birth cert naming your birth parents? or Your adoptive ones?

Sheila

Sheila Report 25 Jan 2006 12:17

Hi Glen, There are 2 points here you are aware that you can get a full copy of your post adoption birth cert, but it will cost 11.50 the form you fill in asks for your adoptive parents name etc and some personal information, this is to make sure that only the adoptee can obtain this. The second point is does you employee have the right to inist on a full cert? Idon't think so when I registered my children's births we had to obtain the short cert this is a lot cheaper, the full one was an optional extra fee, and up to you whether your purchesed it,, we chose to do this. However, a lot of people do not, especially older people where money was scarce, so you should just give him your short cert, if this is not enough for him tell him he can pay for full one, I am sure if you check with CAB this is all your required to supply. Sheila

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 25 Jan 2006 13:58

Latest update; (1) ' I am required to provide a birth certificate to verify my identity' (2) ' The certificate should be in the same name as my employment application' (3) 'A short certificate is not satisfactory' (4) ' Contrary to my comments (previous phone call this morning) a certificate IS proof of identity.' I posed the following points,which some may think are nitpicking,some may not,i invite any comments either for or against to be posted here for all to see. (1)A certificate is not proof of identity,and states asmuch on it. (2)My certificate in my current name is not a birth certificate,(and also he queries why it is dated 11 months later tham my DOB) (3)Why? (4)So why does it state a cert is not to be used to verify identity. I did also ask if i refused to comply with the full cert requirement,on the grounds that other living persons were named on it,would i jeopardise my prospects of employment,and if so why? I.m now awaiting his reply Glen

Janet in Yorkshire

Janet in Yorkshire Report 25 Jan 2006 14:27

I think the insistence on birth certificates as ID is to verify an official correlation between name & dob. (When I moved house, I had to have one of the new driving lics and had to send off my birth cert - as we know, I could have been someone else applying in my name and using my cert) However, producing a birth cert allows the person doing the issuing to tick boxes on their procedure check list, and covers them as having met with the requirements of the law/regulations. Glen, does the gentleman concerned know that you are a special case and may require a different approach? Surely the company has a legal department, who can make themselves au fait with the special circumstances of adoptees and work around this? Otherwise it is a contravention of any special needs policy, which they should have in place and should be following. The problem is, I think, that adoptees are a minority group and most people are unaware of this kind of difficulty - they only think of physical and mental differences, and have no knowledge of the legal aspect of adoption. Jay

Dizzy Lizzy 205090

Dizzy Lizzy 205090 Report 25 Jan 2006 14:46

I think you should refer your employer to the GRO website which gives the following, very clear explanation about Adoption Certificates: Adoptions Adoption certificates What is an adoption certificate and is there more than one type? An adoption certificate is a replacement birth certificate but in an adopted person's new name. It is expected to be used by an adopted person for all legal and administrative purposes in place of the original birth certificate. The main difference between the two documents is the addition of court particulars on an adoption certificate. This can be found at: http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/adoptions/adoptioncertificates/index.asp If he has never encountered an adoptee before he may not understand what being adopted entails HOWEVER the reason a short adoption cert is identical to a short birth cert is because, in legal terms, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE and it can be produced without giving away an adoptee's personal status which is no-one's business but theirs. Again, good luck Glen, Liz

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 25 Jan 2006 15:15

Presumably he is checking with other departments within the company,to clarify the procedure. Maybe i am being bloody minded,but i still object to the need to supply doc's which have references to my adopted parents.Maybe i'm wrong but what have they got to do with my job application? Throughout several threads i have revealed certain details about myself and my adoption,but i choose what and where to reveal. Nobody actually compels me to do so.

Sheila

Sheila Report 25 Jan 2006 16:07

Hi Glen, You go for it ;O) if he is being b****y minded so can you, why is he so bothered about there being 3 months difference between your date of birth and the date of the adoption cert? did it occur to him the first one could have been lost, or does he think you planned a life of crime and corruption at 2 months old and ordered a fake cert in advance ? ;O) Seriously this request for a full cert, could cause problems and shocks for some people. My mother gold bless her had a few copies of my birth cert, in case one was lost, so i would not have to order one and find out I was adopted, there are going to be cases if this becomes law where this will happen. I do know of 1 or 2 cases where people have gone to order their certs from GRO and then found out they where adopted. But in my case so far, my short cert, is all I have ever needed, although I have my orignal certificate, I have not seen a full copy of my adoption one. Never mind if he consults with other departments then maybe he will defer to you in this matter, hopefully, so because as you say, it should be your right if you want to keep your adoption private or not, and your deciscion who you disclose it too. Hope this all end well for you! Sheila

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 25 Jan 2006 16:29

Shiela, i am shocked,you know that i started my slippery slope of crime at 3 months not two. lol. I'm overwhelmed by the responses i've had,and thank you all publicly for your comments,advice and good wishes. Hopefully it is a case of a slightly OTT attitude by the company concerned,and a solution can be found. Let's hope it's an isolated case but i fear it may not be. Something to bear in mind for the future for all of us anyhow. Thanks and huge hugs to everyone Glen xx To be continued

Jess Bow Bag

Jess Bow Bag Report 25 Jan 2006 22:39

As my old granny used to say ''My Ghast is flabbered'' Gawd, since when did being adopted become a disabilty/ special need? I wonder what other special dispensations we can get? I wait with baited breath for the outcome of this one! Alice

Mandy

Mandy Report 25 Jan 2006 23:09

GLEN, BEEN READING THROUGH THIS AND AM QUITE DISGUSTED. QUOTE TO YOUR NEW BOSS THAT AS YOUR BIRTH PARENTS MAY STILL BE LIVING THEN YOU WOULD BE IN BREACH OF DATA PROTECTION BY SHOWING HIM YOUR FULL CERTIFICATE, WHICH WOULD IN TURN RESULT IN A £5000 FINE FOR YOURSELF( I WORK WITH DPA ISSUES DAILY) AS LONG AS YOUR SHORT CERT, LICENCE, AND PASSPORT ALL SHOW THE SAME INFO HE CANNOT THEN DEMAND YOUR FULL CERT UNLESS HE IS WILLING TO PAY THE FINE ON YOUR BEHALF

Pippa

Pippa Report 25 Jan 2006 23:13

What fun would this man have with me. I was re-registered when I was 16 years old - it would give him a heart attack! Obviously I led a life of crime with you during my juvenile years! What a silly and insensitive way of dealing with this!

Janet 693215

Janet 693215 Report 25 Jan 2006 23:13

Sorry if anyone has already said this but the adoption register is available at the Family record centre. I know I looked up my Mums and my Uncles. Don't know how much the certificates cost though cos they both know who their birth parents are.

Glen In Tinsel Knickers

Glen In Tinsel Knickers Report 25 Jan 2006 23:21

Although i'm still awaiting his call,what i suspect is the confusion between identity and nationality. Perhaps he actually thinks they are one and the same. I did wonder,for curiousity more than anything how anyone can actually provide any information without breaching The Data Protection Act,Disclosure of Information Act and still be within The Human Rights Act. When i finally find out what he will accept,and what i'm prepared to give,i think i'll present it to him wrapped in red tape. Glen

Janet in Yorkshire

Janet in Yorkshire Report 26 Jan 2006 00:49

I do apologise if my use of the term 'special needs' has upset anyone. I would like to point out that I do NOT for one minute regard adoption as any kind of disability. I personally see special needs as being the equivalent of 'special circumstances', which I feel applies in this case. When I was working, our special needs policy stated that because of individual circumstances, some people may require access to different procedures from others, so that they are not discriminated against i.e in some circumstances, the usual procedures are not followed and an alternative is found. If I was still at work and following that policy, then I would have found the paperwork presented by Glen acceptable, wheras I would normally have asked to see a birth certificate. Jay

Jess Bow Bag

Jess Bow Bag Report 26 Jan 2006 08:00

Janet- i was the one that picked up on your comment- and wasn't the least bit offended by it! I thought it was quite funny actually. It reminds me of something someone once said, i cant remember the context, just that they said ''I didnt realise you were adopted'' Maybe we should have it tatoo'ed across our forheads....!!! I wouldnt mind, makes no difference to me, and certainly isn't something I feel the need to hide or associate with feeling ashamed of. Alice x

Mandy in Wiltshire

Mandy in Wiltshire Report 26 Jan 2006 08:52

Hi Glen I added to this thread a few days ago and have been following it with interest. I've nothing useful to add except to say that I'm pretty disgusted at the whole thing. Talk about making us adoptees feel like blooming outcasts!! The whole thing stinks really doesn't it? Just thought I'd add my support and will watch out for the boss's responses with interest. Best wishes Mandy :)