Genealogy Chat

Thanks for checking the scottish records Mary.

In answer to your question, i am not entirely sure how much of a connection there is, but what i do know for sure (from Celina's letter) is that she worked alongside my Grandfather in a factory, she lodged at my Grandparents house and she wrote to my grandfather after her baby was born in 1948.

From his reply letter i can work out that he hadnt seen or spoken to her for some years as he tells her that he came out of the Navy in 1946, the letter he sent dated 16th August 1948!

I do have some doubts about her being 14, as suggested, as the time that she knew my family seems too long for that, it is implied she worked with my grandfather some years ago in the 1948 letter.

As i said before, her letter was written well, so it appears she was educated enough to have good spelling and grammar. It could be possible she was a relative of some sort, or just a family friend. Either way, my grandfather was rather fond of her, and i think she of him, since she took the time to write to him at a time in her life of great difficulty.

I will re-read the letter tonight, its about 5 or 6 pages long.

Just a thought - how do you know she was unmarried - may well have been widowed during the war?

Peter

I read the letters again last night, two things struck me..

1. in my grandfathers reply to her he asks if she remembers how she hated working at the factory and how her sister did not want her and how she had knowhere to live?

2. in his 3rd letter he states that the 1st letter came back and he was unable to trace her at Ealing so he had to send the next letter to Osterley Park to be forwarded on to her.


Osterley Park is nearby Ealing and has a large mansion in the park, not sure why he would send her letter there but thats what he says he did.

Hi Scott

More q's for you :-))

What area of the country was your grandfather living when Celina lodged with his family while she worked at a factory?

And how old was your grandfather in 1948 - I get the feeling that he and Celina were of a similar age.

Mary

Scott,

Hope this may help confirm,

West Middlesex Hospital,
Twickenham Road,

Early numbers was 30..then increased from 30 -34,,,,,,,,,so it seems the baby was born there..

Hi Mary,

My grandparents were living in Carshalton in Surrey, but he split up with my Gran shortly after ww2 ended and was living in Porchester, Hants after that.

My grandfather was born 1911 so that makes him about 37 I think. It could be they were of similar age, I don’t know why I got the impression she was younger, but what I read in the letter that Celina sent my Grandfather was that the people she was working/boarding at with the baby, said that they wanted her to give the baby up for adoption. She says in the letter she would not let that happen and was asking the job agency in Baker street to find her work where she can take the baby and she was told by them that they may be able to get her work where she can take her baby in the country.

Thanks for that info regarding the hospital Kay, that confirms I can rule out the birth being anywhere else other than the hospital really.

Hi Wendy,

I hope you dont mind me posting the detail about the PM, as it may help the research.

It was posted in 1999 unfortunately and is a long shot but the 'husband' was born about the right time and lived in the right area, let me know how you get on. The Web site doesn't seem to exist as given.

20/2/99

From: "pasales" [email protected]

Hi. My name is Peter Murphy, I was born in Preston 22 July 1942 and lived at 105 Watling Street Road, Fulwood, I went to St Gregorys R.C. School and my father owned W. Murphy, Electrical Contractor at 218-220 North Road, Preston.

I left Preston with my late wife Sheila (Handley) in 1966 to come to live in South Australia.

Most of my family still live over there.

My email is [email protected] and my website is
www.cobweb.com.au/~pasales

Would love to hear from anyone out there with some connection.

Peter


h**p://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/prestonian/message99.htm

I will take a look at this when i get home from work,

Thanks Wendy

Regarding your query about the letter being sent to Osterley Park. OP is now a National Trust property, but until 1949 was the home of the Villiers family, Earls of Jersey. Maybe she was in service there. She could have lived in the Ealing address you mention and "commute" to OP as it would have been walkable from a trolley bus/tram route. Maybe you could find out where the Earls of Jersey moved to after they gave OP to the National Trust, as she may have stayed with them to their new home in 1949.

Hi Scott

Oh, how funny.......I only live 5 minutes from Portchester :-)))

I'm searching births from 1910 - 1925 to see if she is there as I do get the feeling she is nearer in age to your grandfather.

Mary

Scott,

Have sent vital info in PM<

Its rather too personal for the board,,

just putting my name on this thread so i can find it again, its so interesting,

moe

Im doing the same Minnie

Does someone know how else I can check this marriage reference for a Selina Handley? Under HANDLEY a Selina married a Carter J/A/S 1952 in Wharfedale (Nth Yorkshire) ref 2d-1583. Crossed checked as CARTER a Selina married a Carter same ref number and place, I was expecting to find Selina husband a male named Carter.I think this must be mistranscribed.

PROBLEM SOLVED THANKS TO DOROTHY

Dorothy

Request review
Today at 17:31
3rd Quarter 1952
Carter Robert A -Carter, Fletcher or HandleY
Wharfedale 2d 1583


I have checked all the marriages on Ancestry Complete for Selina between 1948 and 1960 but the the above is the only one.

Wendy

Thank you Dorothy that's brilliant

Wendy

Hi Scott
Now checked marriages 1948 - 1965 onlyfound the one above where Selina is Carter/Fletcher/Handley but I found the Peter Murphy marriage, the one in email on the net, and Peter married Selina M Handley in Preston in 1965 so this isn't your Selina and I will delete my postings on this as it will confuse the situation. I can't remove my pm you added to thread

Wendy

I have been given some information by Kay, it looks to be most promising as it has the correct name and initial for Sheila and i have a current address. I have written them a letter and included an SAE.

Thanks to all those who contributed, this is a very interesting thread, being an amateur at family history research (it can be quite difficult cant it?) i value everybody's contribution. I think this thread has given me a different perspective on the research, and i can see how valuable the sharing of information is to this process.

If i get a reply to my letter i will post here if i have found the correct person, and i will post also if she is not lol. But i am going to keep using these boards, they are very very useful, maybe i will get to help some people as well?

Scott

Very best wishes and lots of luck with the letter

Wendy

Good luck with the letter, it will be great if you do get a reply.

Just to let you know I checked all births right back to 1905 and no Celina.......a couple of Selina's but no middle names for them :-(( So she was either not born in England/Wales or was missed off the GRO returns.

Mary

This thread has been fascinating and good luck with your search.
I, like others who have read this thread would love to know the outcome.
Adopted children's original birth certificates are required by law to be amended... and for it to show the word 'adopted' in (for 1948) the right hand column.
Also you may like to check out the website 28dayslater there is a board for asylums and hospitals and great reading :-)
Scott... please let us know how you go.
Cheers Gerry

Well, i got my reply today. It appears that Celina died on 10th January 1983. She was Born on Co.Mayo 1913 so that will probably be why we couldnt find her on birth indexes. I have put in a request on here in the Irish lookups.
This shows she wasnt all that young at the time of the birth. The letter i got was from her granddaughter, as Celina's daughter had passed away in 2005.

I will send her another letter, including my email in case she would like scans of the letters, or if she wants to know or ask me anything, i think thats the only thing i can do. Although i would love to know what Celina looked like, i feel a bit entitled to ask for a photo scan as i am not blood related.

So there you have it.