General Chat

Sparrows thread...Churchill being one of course...

Enoch Powell..was discussed briefly..(..I admit..did not know much about him..)...Since..have googled..you tubed..and got a fair impression on him.."rivers of blood" speech in particular...
your views..was he misrepresented...misunderstood?

your views much appreciated...many thanks...

(and for the record..I dont want Hitler to feature in this thread!)x

He was Quoting from the Greek Classics,It was something like "Like the Roman,I see Blood on the Tiber" It was the press who came out with the "Rivers of Blood" Theme. **M**.

you sure it wasnt a biblical reference Merlin?

.can there be such a thing as a 'great' dictator? I thought the two terms would be mutually exclusive.
Angela

Do,nt think so Lily,He was a Greek Scholar,I cant remember who he quoted from but not from the Bible.**M**.

~~but was there not something in the bible..regarding the rivers turning red?...Was he not using a Metaphor?...
...`A great dictator` .open to interpretation some would say..Churchill..others would say..Thatcher..
For me..a `great dictator`..is someone..that gave guidance..in difficult times...~~

Am I totally misunderstanding the thread title...."Dictators of our time-Churchill being one, of course?
May I respectfully submit that Churchill WAS NOT a dictator. How can you possible equate Churchill with the likes of Mussolini, Idi Amin, Stalin, Saddam and Mugabe? ( I won,t mention Hitler).lol

~~~Carol...you are totally right....I stand corrected...
A dictator..is a tyrant..one that rules a country..to absolute power...a ` Leader`...Is probably what I meant.....

~~However...I am interested to hear about your views on Enoch Powell...specifically...because..My knowledge of him..was non existent...until it was pointed out to me..he was quite important..(..I do have excuse..that he was prominant..in yr I was born..)..I was never taught anything in history at school about him...so..would appreciate..anyones views...

The only thing about Enoch Powell that sticks in my memory were his views on immigration (to Great Britain) and later, his reluctance over Britain joining the "Common Market". I won,t air my opinions here as it might result in your thread being "pulled".lol

LOL....Carol....I appreciate..your opinion..I can see that people will be..careful..in what they say...

I have youtubed..and googled..am still non the wiser..

My..interpretation is this..in ways he was a bit like George Orwell..in his..predictions..of the future..he predicted problems that `could` arise..they have done...I can not get my head around his.."rivers of blood` speech...ambigous..to the extreme..
This speech by all accounts is famous..but misunderstood..~~?

Lily - yes Enoch Powell did predict, to a certain extent. I think really you need to go and read about him. Possibly the reason you have had little response about him, is that, comments by some may appear racist, and your thread would be pulled.
If you want to pm me, please feel free to do so.
P.S. Surely no dictators are good dictators. Look at Mugabe
Julia in Derbyshire

Today's rebel is tomorrow's tyrant.

Yesterday's rebel is today's elder statesman. (eg. Nelson Mandella.)

~~This is no way a racist thread...far from it...I like to explore different avenues to reach a conclusion..I just find politics of this nature..so..ambigous..I can only go by what I have seen on youtube..and to be honest..What Enoch said..was just how he saw things...how things could manifest...
Dictators...?...that is a different thread altogether!~~

Hmmm a bit of a contradiction in terms.
A dictator is an "authoritarian ruler (e.g. absolutist or autocratic) who assumes sole power over his or her state" according to Wikipedia.
Surely some of the most famous (not great) dictators would include Hitler, Stalin, Idi Amin etc. Some dictators, such as Hitler, actually did SOME good for their state as well as the absolute atrocities that took place.
I think it would be wrong to discuss dictators but stipulate that only certain ones can be mentioned - that is how history is, and has been, covered up.

As far as Enoch Powell is concerned, well, we shall never know.

Yes Lilly - I agree this is not a racist thread, and I am not suggesting that for one minute. But you need to learn more about Enoch Powell, then you will see how it "Could" turn into a racist thread. Whilst I agree that what he said was how he saw things, and how it could manifest, in today's world, that can be seen as controvertial and racist. This speach was made many years ago, and would not be considered PC today
Julia in Derbyshire

Very very true, Julia. Too often we hear people applying today's values and opinions to a speech made over 40 years ago when things were very different.

Lily, I have just had a look on answers.com and there,s some good info on there about Enoch. If you "yahoo" his name, it will take you to the site.
As everyone else has intimated, this subject matter could be misconstrued as "non PC" which is something of a mixed metaphor.lol. I hope you find the answers you are looking for and can form your own conclusions. x