General Chat

Can anyone please tell me that if scotland should become independant from the uk, then does this mean any non scottish people will have to apply for citizenship afterwards so they can vote at future elections?

I had a friend who was Austrian who came here and married an englishman. In order to be able to vote, she had to give up being Austrian and become a british citizen, which she refused to do. So she never could vote in any election.

Would this apply to scotland? I am English but have been living in Scotland for 20 years. my oh and children are Scottish but where would this leave me?

Your thoughts please.

Florence
in the hebrides :-S

It's all a bit complicated for me Florence, I did wonder if Scotland became independent, would we need passports to visit?
I hope it stays a part of the UK, I love Scotland, the people and love being a part of it

I used to travel to Scotland on business on the train, and during the American tourist season there was one train conductor who, on leaving Berwick on Tweed would announce over the PA that we would soon be approaching the border an that he would be round to check passports. Many took him seriously too.....!

On a serious note, though, these are the type of issues that need to be sorted out now. My view is that when a country becomes independent, it does just that, and people shouldn't expect the status quo will continue.

Florence61 - not sure about non Scottish people, I myself wonder if people born and bread in Scotland and who had left Scotland and return after say, Scotland voted for independence, would they need to do the same.

The reason I ask is that although I was born and brought up in Scotland and lived there for the best part of 45 years I cannot vote in the referendum on independence nor any national or local election pertaining to Scotland - because I have disenfranchised myself by moving to live in England, so where do I stand if I return to the country of my birth.

Just for the record I am in the "No Camp"

Thanks for your comments. I truly hope that Scotland remains part of the uk. Alex Salmon is so set on getting his own way, he just doesnt have a plan B if things dont work out!(ie what currency will be used?)

In a recent poll in my daughters sec school. the result was 52% against. These were 16/17 yr olds!

I love living here and am proud to be british, but when push comes to shove, would I give up being English and become a Scottish citizen, no I dont think so!

Florence
in the very wild hebrides today!

PS. forgot to say I'm in the "no" camp too, better together.

Florence
in the hebrides

Florence - rules have changed since your Austrian friend moved here. Now that we are both part of the EU she has an automatic entitlement.

If an independent Scotland can negotiate EU membership, then any EU citizen resident in Scotland would be able to vote.
..................
I wasn’t born in Scotland – Can I still register to vote in the referendum?

It doesn’t matter where you were born but you do need to be living in Scotland now. You also need to be a British, Irish, other European Union or qualifying Commonwealth citizen. Qualifying Commonwealth citizens are those who have leave to enter or remain in the UK or do not require such leave.
............

To be able to register to vote at the referendum you need to be resident in Scotland. This means that your permanent home address is in Scotland.

http://www.aboutmyvote.co.uk/the_independence_referendum/
faqs_for_young_voters.aspx

None of which answers the question of what would happen after a Yes result!

If Scotland go independent I feel it will be Scotland biggest ever mistake :-(

One has to smile at strenuous efforts to undermine the Scottish people with underlying arrogance & determination by trying to convince them that they are virtually superior beings by staying part of the UK.

Don't allow the politicians to fool everyone.

Would Salmond drop the idea if there was a majority No vote?

Part of me says go for it if you think you can be financially independent - just don't come crying to 'Mother' if you need a bail out. Oh, by the way, you'll have to take on some of the UK debt caused by the UK government support of the failed Scottish Banks.

On the other hand, the implications of untangling everything is horrendous.

Relax Folks- Scotland will NOT get independence.

There are fewer tan 6million people in Scotland of whom about 4million will be able to vote.
There are 400,000 English people in Scotland and nearly as many other Nationalities who are unlikely to vote Yes, so I cannot see the Yes campaign getting a majority.
This is a total waste of money - and who is paying for it???

Dermot is right. There needs to be a lot of sensible debate before the voters living in Scotland place their vote. I am sure there are many pluses and minuses, but I feel the powers that be (and HM the Queen is still a very powerful voice) are leaning on the 3 Unionist parties (Cons, Labour and Lib Dems) to present an Armageddon type scenario (to a nation that has got more potential than Switzerland or Norway).

Some Labour voters in Scotland will be pro-independence because Scotland votes left wing and gets right wing time after time.

I think it will be a close call. My gut instinct is same as Robert. But new UK Labour goverment in 2015 (under Miliband - yes, it WILL happen) will have to keep their own voters sweet in Scotland with more devolution and tax raising powers.

If Scotland votes for independence it will go broke in short order. For that reason the referendum will fail.

Why would the English resident in Scotland not vote ? There is not much reluctance of the Scots living in England to vote.

Usually EU citizens resident in the UK may vote in local elections and EU elections ( if registered ) but not in parliamentary elections. Even if eligible to vote in the referendum there are not enough to sway the result. EU citizens may stand for election to local govt posts.

British commonwealth citizens resident in the UK have the same voting rights as British citizens including referendums and even the right to stand as an MP.

If ( very big if ) Scotland became independent much the same conditions as for Ireland after 1922 would apply. British citizens born abroad can have their birth registered at the Embassy and that would include an independent Scotland.

So far the ongoing nationality of Scottish residents is a moot point. Those born in England, Wales or NI will be able to go on as British. Those born in Scotland may be happy to become Scots after UI day, a good many won't. This has happened before when Canada was created out of the independent USA.

Nicola Sturgeon , Alex salmon's deputy said "if they dont win, they will do another referendum in 2025"( i think this is the date she said)!! What planet are they on and which bit do they not yet understand. Every person here I speak to says they dont want independance!

I know i am English maried to a scot, but no English person i know up here will vote yes.

Scotland is too small and not financially able to manage on their own. As someone else said this referendum is costing a fortune and is a total waste of money and i happen to agree.

Florence
in the hebrides :-|

We have an equivalent problem here in Canada

Quebec


There was a referendum for Quebec sovereignty in 1980

It failed.

There was another in 1995

For that one, many Canadians went to Quebec carrying Canadian flags, and basically saying "let's stay together"

That referendum failed by the smallest of margins ...... 49% to 51%

The Quebec government is now thinking of holding another referendum, especially if they win the election called for April 7.


The separatists believe they can separate from Canada, but maintain Canadian currency, travel under Canadian passports, support, protection (by the armed forces), etc etc. On the other hand, Quebe expects to allowed to trade as and when it wants, not to share any part of the Canadian debt but to have Canada take over its debt (even after secession) ................. and to succeed in North America as a French only society

It odn't work that way!




Oh, by the way ............................... the northern third of Quebec is occupied by First Nations peoples. They don't want to separate from Canada.

BUT Quebec have said that the First Nations won't be allowed to secede from Quebec



I've been watching news reports about Scotland, and what London is saying, with great interest

Which of the following countries is the largest in terms of size and population?

Jamaica
Uruguay
Scotland
Norway
Ireland
Croatia
New Zealand

Of course it is Scotland. 85 independent countries in the 189 countries of UN are smaller than Scotland. Including Finland, Denmark and some quite significant ones (unlike the list of second raters above).

It would make as much sense (if we ignore the different cultures) to amalgamate two fairly small countries - Australia and New Zealand. Can you imagine? Scotland is as proud a nation as Ireland or Jamaica, surely.

On the subject of voting in the Scottish referendum - I found this report in the Sunday Times today quite interesting:-

Alex Salmond, Scotland’s first minister, acted illegally by denying expatriate Scots a vote in the independence referendum, according to one of Britain’s top barristers.

Aidan O’Neill, a QC who is expert in EU law, said the decision had “good prospects” of being overturned in a judicial review on the grounds that it violated Scottish expatriates’ right to freedom of movement under European law.

The formal advice was commissioned by James Wallace, a lawyer born and raised in Dumfries but now based in London. He is sending the legal opinion to Salmond and David Cameron today, demanding they enfranchise the estimated 1.15m Scottish expatriates in order to avoid court action that could delay the referendum due on September 18.

If the threat is ignored, O’Neill says a petition, backed already by more than 2,700 Scots and demanding a judicial review, could be lodged within a week.

To allow ex-pats a vote seems morally wrong. If their 'main residence' is no longer in Scotland, why should they have a say in the country's future? Where would you draw the line? Would they want to include Scottish born people who have lived elsewhere for the majority of their adult lives, say 40+ years?

The same could apply if Wales, N Ireland or England was being discussed.

I may be wrong but I think ex-pats are allowed to vote in UK elections for up to 15-year after they moved to live abroad, in a recent case, the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg ruled, that the UK prohibiting voting after 15 years by individuals who had gone to live abroad, were proportionate and fair.

Yes you can vote in UK elections upto 15 yrs after you've left the country if you're still a UK citizen, and you've registered with elections office in the area you used to live in.