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OK children...

this is probably why we can't find Mabel getting married

Name: Mabel Jenkins
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1910
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1911
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Bury
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8c
Page: 677

I can find a marriage for Vera (Rose??) in Preston in 1947 which would make her 35....so not sure if this is kosher or not.

I've tried Matthias, Jenkins and Llewellyn....:-(

You really must find an easier family to research! :-D.

And no, I can't see a marriage for her either, and the only marriage for her children is that one you have posted, but like you say it's a bit tenuous

Yes this has been an interesting puzzle and to get so near yet so far with both Charles (and Eva) and Edith (and Mervyn) is sooooooooooooo frustrating ;-)

Just having another mooch .....and assuming that the 1947 marriage is for the Vera R Jenkins born to Mervyn and Edith Mabel.....then this death looks promising....


England & Wales, Death Index
Name: Vera Rose Taylor
Birth Date: 18 Jul 1912
Date of Registration: Jul 2001
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Preston and South Ribble
Inferred County: Lancashire
Register Number: A49C
District and Subdistrict: 5881A
Entry number: 56


And if Mabel Edith/Edith Mabel moved to the Preston area with both her surviving girls....a possible marriage and death for Edna....


Marriages Jun 1940 (>99%)
Jenkins Edna Jones Preston 8e 1489
Jones Edward Jenkins Preston 8e 1489


England & Wales, Death Index
Name: Edna Jones
Birth Date: abt 1909
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1951
Age at Death: 42
Registration district: Preston
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 460


And a possible death for Mabel Edith, although the age is way out......

Deaths Sep 1941 (>99%)
Jenkins Mabel E 55 Preston 8e 764


Then again I am probably just guilty of trying to make any of this fit and it would be very expensive in certs to prove or disprove. ;-)

Yes Christina....had made all those tenuous connections as well :-) And as, technically, none of them are my family, I am not going to splurge!!!!!

I'd like to try and prove the other angle of Eva........

What is interesting is that in 1911, Charles has entered 1 child born 1 child died!

Jude

That death for Vera looks promising Christina - there aren't that many Vera R's born in that quarter, but then again there are a lot of Taylor marriages to Vera R's.

Jude, I assumed from the 1911 census Charles meant that him and Mabel/Edith had had 1 child but it died. They married Q2/1900 so the child could have been born and died anytime from 1900 to say 1907, assuming Edna Jenkins was the first child she had with Mervyn. I'll download the possible births/deaths in Newport for Llewellyn children and see how many we are left with.

Took a look, and I think there are only 3 possible children for them who have died:

Harold Raymond b Q3/1903 d 1904
Eva Mary b Q3/1906 d 1906
David b & d Q4/1907 - but think he is a little late if she registered Edna in Q2/1908

Think I'd be putting money on Eva Mary Llewellyn - could be his daughter, but who knows which of the ladies in question would be her mother :-D :-D

Births Sep 1906 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Llewellyn Eva Mary Newport, M. 11a 220

Wow - Flip....I might speculate on Eva Mary!!!!!

Jude

Jude, before you splash out, check out all the births/deaths Newport 1900-1908 just in case I've missed crossing one off - although I don't think I have, However, if the dead child he refers to is not Edith/mabels's then it could be Eva's and born up to 1911.

Well I have speculated on Eva Mary birth and Mabel E death....

Does any kind person have easy access to electoral rolls in Bridgewater?

I drew a blank on finding Charles and Eva together in Constance Street Newport. Wondered if anyone could see 45 Wellington Road Bridgwater from Spring 1923?

Jude

Well Eva Mary bombed....She was the daughter of George William Llewellyn and his wife Mary Ann nee Williams. No relation as far as I know and certainly not Charles' daughter!

But struck gold with Mabel Edith Jenkins. She was the widow of Albert Jenkins (licensed victualler - so he changed from insurance salesman to dental technician to (presumably) licensed victualler before being killed in WW1.

Informant was daughter Vera Rose Jenkins present at the death at 48 Oxford Street Preston. She died on 25 July 1941 allegedly aged 55 years...so Vera Rose got this wrong - she was around 8 years older.

Looks like they moved to Preston at some point where Edna got married in 1940, Mabel Edith died in 1941 and Vera Rose got married in 1947

Jude

At last! you have got a good cert! In fact a dead cert, good cert.!

If you are like me you leapt up and down (or an approximation of leaping), when you opened the envelope. :-D :-D :-D

Oh Tess...very droll!

Yes it was a good feeling!

Jude

Not quite ready to give up on this!

On the case of the child that died, punt on Eva Mary failed. Assuming the child was not with Mabel Edith, who does not declare a child that died in 1911 in Bury - well I have to make some assumptions! - then there are another six possibilities of children born and died in Newport between censuses. Bit too pricey for me :-)

On the case of Charles and Eva - be she Edmonds or Bevan....the will states "late of 34 Constance Street" but I never find her listed on electoral roll. So can somebody just confirm my understanding of electoral reform please?

Charles would have been 21 in 1900. But only men of 21 who owned property with a rateable value of £10 or more per year were able to vote - so he wouldn'e be on electoral rolls (as I am fairly sure he did not own property).

In 1918, women of age 30 were able to vote if they owned property or were university graduates. Hence I find Maria in 1918 onwards until her death in 1922.

Also in 1918, all men aged 21 had a vote irrespective of qualification. Hence I find Charles David when he moves in with Maria in 1920. And, if I knew his address prior to this would probably find him from 1918.

Now Eva - if she lived with Maria and Charles at 34 Constance Street did not own the property so irrespective of age she would not be on the electoral roll.

So the ONLY chance of finding Eva Bevan on an electoral roll before 1928 is IF Charles David owned 45 Wellington Road Bridgwater and she inherited it and stayed there after his death in 1926.

Which of course is (a) a big if and (b) a very small window! ....oh roll on 1921 census being released! :-D

Well today Maria's will came (and it only took two weeks) :-D

And she obviously had her doubts about him!!

The will was originally written in 1906...and although she appears to have divided her estate between her children, where Charles David was concerned, she determined that the trustees would "stand possessed" of his share and to pay him an income from it.

Then there was a codicil when the first of her executors died...and in this she gave him the use of all furniture belonging to her at 36 Constance Street and that income payable should be paid weekly - this was in 1919.

And then a year later she added a second codicil bequeathing the leasehold of that house to him and his sister as joint tenants and that if either declined to live there that the house be sold and the proceeds divided equally between them.

I really want to try and sort this one out! I am convinced that Eva Edmunds/Edmonds - maybe childhood friend of Charles - was Eva Bevan "lately of 36 Constance Street".

So she lived with Maria and Charles in Newport. She doesn't show on the electoral rolls because she was a woman and didn't own the property. As far as I can see Eva Edmunds disappears after 1901 and Eva Bevan doesn't exist .

Mabel Edith/Edith Mabel had gone to Bury by 1908 where her first daughter was born. So sometime between census 1901 and census 1911 she went off to Bury and he moved Eva in...

She (Eva) had a child that died if his 1911 census is to be believed...but where is she in 1911?

Fresh eyes two years on :-)

Have no idea if this is connected!

Eva definitely wouldn't be middle aged!


Western Mail, Cardiff - 16th March 1918

Eva Bevan, a middle aged woman, of Clytha Park Road, who said she was a native of Monmouth, was at Newport sent to prison for 2 months on charges of obtaining provisions by false pretences.

Sorry Jude, had a read through to refresh my aging memory ........but nothing new coming to mind.

Wonder why your grandfather registered the death - he didn't live in Bridgewater at that time did he? What qualification was given for him to register the death?

Just also wonder whether Eva Bevan/Edmonds are not the same person - we don't know how old Eva Bevan was apart from thinking she was previously Eva Edmonds. If Charles had rhumatoid arthritis, could he have needed a nurse - and Eva was that nurse? Just a thought. I think your only hope is to get the ERs checked out for 45 Wellington Road if you can find someone local. Maybe Charles was living with her, rather than the other way round, and she owned the property? (though doubtful if she had lived with his mother)

I know Charles put 1 child died on 1911 census, but Mabel/Edith didn't ... but maybe she read the census correctly and only declared the children to her current relationship..

Flip...it just says L.J. Llewellyn Brother In attendance and then his address in Newport. Suspect it fell to him because, other than Alfred who was in an asylum, he was the only surviving brother as Thomas had died in 1899 and William in 1919. Sisters Maria and Jane were both still alive but they were (a) women!! and (b) both profoundly deaf.

It's all conjecture of course but I can't help thinking that he and Eva were living together as man and wife with Maria in Newport and then when Maria died, under the terms of her will, 36 Constance Street was left equally to Charles and his sister Jane to live in and so I suspect it was sold and shared between them and that he and Eva Bevan moved to Bridgwater (though goodness knows why)!

Choccy - when I was a child my mother was in her mid thirties and I thought she and all her friends to be "middle-aged"! Of course nowadays you wouldn't apply that to someone in their thirties but then....she would have been 36 in 1918.....might follow it up. Clytha Park Road is in exactly the right area for where Eva Edmonds came from but it is nowhere near Constance Street...but checking what I wrote earlier, only Maria is at Constance Street up to 1919 and Charles joins her in 1920....maybe with Eva in tow after she completed her two months!

Just dowloaded the whole page and there was also an article about a Seaman's Widow....who was also the subject of a previous thread - and if I had found that earlier then it would have answered a few of the questions we solved between us on that thread lol!