Genealogy Chat

His DOB was probably on his war records.

He may not have needed a passport back in 1911 ... I can't remember when they became an "official" document but that would be worth checking.

(I have exactly the same problem with my grandfather. I know his DOB, I know his life from birth, I know all about his father - but I cannot find a birth reg'n, or a baptism and I have no idea of his mother's maiden name as cannot spot a likely marriage.)

It's frustrating but keep plugging away, something will turn up.

Jill

Had you looked in this site for Albert ?

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nzbound/lists.htm

Janet, you may well have all the information you need about John Key, but those of us trying to help you don't have.

You've obviously done a lot of searching for Albert, and haven't found him, so we could be looking for something odd that you haven't spotted.

So please do tell us what info you have on John Key.

Marriages Mar 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Key James Leeds 9b 613
Mulligan Edward William Leeds 9b 613
Pattinson Ellen Leeds 9b 613
Rochford Frances Leeds 9b 613

So is this the entry for "sister" Ellen Key nee Pattinson who Albert went to join in New Zealand?


Mrs Ellen KEY
Date of departure: 1 April 1910
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Wellington, New Zealand
Passenger destination: Wellington, New Zealand

Date of Birth:
Age:
Marital status: Single
Sex: Female
Occupation: Housewife
Passenger recorded on: Page 1 of 10





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The following people with the same last name travelled on this voyage: -

Hannah KEY Page 1 of 10 View transcript



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Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
CORINTHIC
115296
F Hart
Shaw Savill & Albion Co Ld
New Zealand
5601
7832

I ask this because the year is 1910...and you stated that you thought Albert went out in around 1902


Nicky

Thank you Nicky, I have all that information. It was actually Albert's other "sister" (Annie, possibly his birth mother) he came to join, she had been living in NZ for some time.

Thank you also Madmeg, but I have all the information re James Key , John Key and Ellen Pattinson. Please do not go into that any further. There is no point in giving you the information I have as he is not the one I am tracing now! It is really only Albert I am wanting at this stage, his birth and his trip to NZ. I really only wanted to know if it was possible at the time of his birth to not register it.

Right I`m getting confused now.....

Is this Albert and his sister Ellen in 1901? If so they are in Bury Lancs. not Whitehaven Cumberland, unfortunatly i can`t look at the image as its not bringing up the correct page when I go to look at the image.

TOGWELL, Henry Head Married M 32 1869 Electricity Mains Fman
Woolwich
London VIEW
TOGWELL, Adelaide Daughter Single F 5 1896
Plumstead
London VIEW
KAY, Ellen Servant Married F 30 1871 Housekeeper (Dom)
Parton
Cumberland VIEW
PATTISON, Albert Visitor Single M 13 1888 Scholar
Carlisle
Cumberland VIEW

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RG number:
RG13 Piece:
3640 Folio:
15 Page:
21

Registration District:
Bury Sub District:
North Bury Enumeration District:
16 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Paul

Civil Parish:
Bury Municipal Borough:
Address:
7, Bell Lane Chesham Crescent, Bury County:
Lancashire

And can anyone else find him please in 1891 as I`m at a loss.....


Nicky

I got Albert's date of birth from his now deceased son and it is on his army records. I also have his marriage certificate. His son also had the details of the ship and date he supposedly came to NZ, but I haven't been able to tie in the dates. All a bit of a mystery! Thank you all for your help.

Janet

I am now spending a lot of time floundering in the dark for the Key family, and for Annie, Ellen and Hannah Pattinson.

Janet, please give us full information on them. Otherwise we (a) can't really help and (b) spend a lot of time trying to.

Right got him in 1891..with "mother Hannah" in Whitehaven Cumbria..

PATTISON, Hannah Head Widow F 42 1849 Lodging House Keeper
Harrington
Cumberland VIEW
PATTISON, Albert E Son M 3 1888
Carlisle
Cumberland VIEW
STUDHOLM, Ann Mother Married F 59 1832
Harrington
Cumberland VIEW

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RG number:
RG12 Piece:
4313 Folio:
69 Page:
13

Registration District:
Whitehaven Sub District:
Whitehaven Enumeration District:
4 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Bees

Civil Parish:
Whitehaven Municipal Borough:
Address:
7, Coates Lane, Whitehaven County:
Cumberland

Nicky

Janet could you please give us all the information you have on Albert. especially if you have his arrival in New Zealand......I would be dubious about exact date of birth coming from his son, people often don`t know the exact date of birth of their parents and can sometimes be out by quite a bit.


Nicky

is that Albert in Bury Lancs in 1901 with Ellen.?

While I appreciate that you have all the information on these other relatives and are only looking for Albert, it would really help us helpers to know what you know so as we can see if you`ve missed something. Could you give us Annies arrival details in New Zealand please.

And therefore:

1881 England Census
about Hannah Pattinson
Name: Hannah Pattinson
Age: 32
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: Harrington, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Workington
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address: 62 Derwent St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Workington
ED, institution, or vessel: 17
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Clements 28
Mary A. Clements 24
Margaret Clements 4
Fanny Clements
Emma Allinson 15
Hannah Pattinson 32 Visitor, Mar
Ellen Pattinson 9 (I would guess daughter)

Hannahs death in 1901.....

Deaths Mar 1901 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pattinson Hannah 51 Whitehaven 10b 425



Nicky

Think this may be Annie with her father in 1881...so she wasn`t in New Zealand then...

PATTINSON, Dan Head Married M 30 1851 Chemist & Druggist
Dearham
Cumberland VIEW
PATTINSON, Annie Daughter Single F 7 1874 Scholar
Whaven
Cumberland VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG11 Piece:
5185 Folio:
8 Page:
10

Registration District:
Whitehaven Sub District:
Whitehaven Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Whitehaven Municipal Borough:
Address:
38, Irish Street, Whitehaven County:
Cumberland

Dan and Hannahs marriage???

Marriages Mar 1871 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Coulthard Mary Whitehaven 10b 695
Martin Hannah Whitehaven 10b 695
Pattinson Dan Whitehaven 10b 695
Routledge William Whitehaven 10b 695



Nicky

...... and what about that EDWARD ALLINSON whose birth registration I found registered in Whitehaven, and posted at about 1:00 am UK time this morning??



Have you completely discounted that one??????????


You never made any mention of taking notice of it.



sylvia

Oh, Sylvia, were you thinking he was Pattinson? I did see it and wondered.

Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate the help you are giving, but to be honest, you are doubling up on what I have. I will give a quck precis: Hannah and Dan Pattinson were married around 1870. They had Ellen (b. 1871) and Annie (b.1873). Ellen married James Key in 1887 in Leeds and John was born the same year in Thirsk (30.6.87). I have ongoing information about John and James and am not interested in going any further. Ellen left James and John and went back to Whitehaven. She gave birth to my grandmother, Hannah in 1892. That is a different story and I have researched that. Annie married in UK and came to NZ in the 1890s, I have that information,b ut it is not totally relevant at this stage. I have wondered over the years if it was possible that Ellen gave birth to twins, John and Albert and only registered John? Albert was brought up as the son of Hannah and Dan, but Dan was dead well before Albert was born! As noted, Albert's birth date could have been "made up", it was only a few months after John's. Food for thought? Thank you all again, but please don't go into too much history of this family. Is it possible to search baptism records?

Madmeg - please do not spend anymore time floundering! Thank you for your help.

Yes Nicky, that is the same one, thanks. I also have Ellen in the previous census living with her sister Annie in Skipton. Her daughter (Hannah Key, my grandmother) was living in Whitehaven in 1901 with her godmother. Ellen obviously wasn't a very good mother! I have Albert in 1891 living with Hannah Pattinson as her 3 year old son. I still think she was really his grandmother!

Meg



it had crossed my mind, not sure why .... it was late last night when I saw it!





well, it really does seem to me that this is an unsolvable problem



all participants in the mystery are dead


IF Hannah was pretending to be his mother, then it is quite on the cards that she registered him under her name ........... not unknown for that to happen



I think the only possibility of solving anything would be, quite honestly, to find a little peice of paper tucked in to a family bible or other "family" book.



Plus of course the fact that we are relying on "hearsay" for so much, including his date of birth


"Hearsay" from my very own grandfather said that he was born on December 25 1884 or, sometimes he said, 1885

WRONG!

........... the day after his death his son discovered the birth certificate ...... January 9 1885


I could have spent months if not years looking for the registration!




sylvia