Genealogy Chat

Hi everyone i am researching my partners tree and we do not know her grandparents her father Charles Smith was born in 1931 and his mother died approx 1938 in Hillingdon and he and his siblings Walter and Noah went to live with his aunt Matilda Fletcher and her mother Selina Smith and we know one of Matildas siblings was Charlies mother but we are having trouble finding them can anyone help? :-)

A Marriage certificate would give the name and occupation of both fathers if known. A birth certificate would give the name of both parents if they were together.

Are you also saying this is a Traveller family because it would mean it would be much more difficult to track the family movements.

Get copies of certificates

Birth location would be useful if you want people to try to help, as would dates for the people you have named

Find the birth and post details

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

When did Charles die?

If they are Travellers then the Romany & Traveller family history society (www.rtfhs.org.uk) might be of some help.

When and whom did Charles smith marry

The cert would help

If Matilda Fletcher was Charles's mother's sister, and HER mother was Selina Smith, by definition Selina was Charles's grandmother.

Therefore, Charles's mother must have married a SMITH - or was unmarried when she gave birth

Can't see any marriage of a Matilda Smith to a Fletcher 1900-39.

Have you found the boys in 1939? Perhaps theyre still living, in which case they won't show up.

Or Matilda or Selina in 1939?
Or Matiilda in any census?

When and where were Walter and Noah born? Or Matilda?

Where were Matilda and Selina living when the boys went to live with them?


You say Charles's mother died "approx 1938" and that she was "one of Matildas siblings"
Does that vagueness mean you don't know her name?

??? Just a suggestion:

There's a possibly illegitimate birth of a Charles Smith in 1931 in Brentford, and also a definitely illegitimate birth of a Walter Smith in Brentford in 1934.

I don't see Noah's birth in Brentford, but there's a possibly iillegitmate birth in Brentford in 1935, of a male Smith with no first name.given.


Are Charles/Walter/Noah still living?

We need more info from Peter

I've looked at 1939, but can't see any likely candidates, but, as they were travellers, they may not have filled in any forms

?????
Noah
Last name Smith
Birth quarter 3
Birth year 1926
Mother's maiden name Smith
District Staines


cannot find any further trace of him

Ancestry links this death to the birth.......................and there is no birth for Norman N Smith in 1926

Name: Norman Noah Smith
Death Age: 64
Birth Date: 1 Jun 1926
Registration Date: Nov 1990
Registration District: Watford
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 10
Page: 912

But, until Peter returns and gives some dates and locations, we're simply guessing.

Its very common l in the traverller community for same named cousins to marry,,,,,,so Smith and Smith births may not be the cause of illegitimate children..

Walter,Noah and Charles have all died I have found a Selina Smith in the 1911 census living in Feltham Middlesex and born in Southampton 1881 and that was the same year Selina Smith in 1939 register was born and I can verify the one in the 1939 register is correct because my partner remembers going to Vine Place Hounslow as a small child .The Selina Smith in 1911 census is listed with 6 children and her address is very close to where Vine Place is but I can not link one of the female children to Charles

You won’t be able to find which one is Charles’ mother without his birth certificate.

Do you have any idea where Charles was born.?

I’ m sure you realise that the name ‘Smith’ is one of the most difficult to trace.

If you want us to help, you’ll have to be more forthcoming with info.

Have you purchased any certs relating to this family?

The 1911 census has Selina born 1880 Southampton, living in a caravan in Feltham.

The 1911 census states they have produced 8 children, of whom 2 have died. `There are 6 living with them - none named Matilda, so when was she born?

There is possible birth on freebmd for Selina AMJ 1880

The story is Selina had 3 girls with a Mr Fletcher but was not married to him and there is a story that the other 2 girls were jealous of Matilda so set fire to their caravan I am not sure how relevant this may be

Will you please give us some dates.

You refer to Charles’s brothers - when and where were they born? OR...when did they die?

Indeed, where was Charles born? Have you thought of getting his birth cert?