Genealogy Chat

Patricia -
To repeat what's been said before - you need a copy of David's birth cert to see exactly what it says.


IF Letherton is a mistake, and IF it should be Netherton, and IF Alice Lucy, the widow in 1911, is the right person, it's possible (and no more than that) that David is another man's son (ie - not Alfred John Howe, who died 1910), but still registered as Howe because that was still Alice/Lucy's name.

How does your cousin know his grandparents' names?
If he was told the names by David, it's possible that David didn't know his supposed father's full name, if he was brought up to believe he was Alfred John's son.

Was he brought up by his mother, or was he adopted?
Perhaps he was just going by what is (perhaps) written on the birth cert?

So many "maybe"s and possibilities.
Without further information, we're only guessing.

Looking at Lucy Alice/Alice Lucy , just in case -

??
Alice Lucy Howe
in the London, England, Electoral Registers, 1832-1965
Name: Alice Lucy Howe
Electoral Date: 1914
Street Address: 25 Dunkeld street
Ward or Division/Constituency: Poplar
County or Borough: Tower Hamlets, England


Re the Shelter in Glaucus Street, where she was in 1911:

"Other articles also passed through the Council's apparatus, from the
Shelter, Glaucus Street, disinfectors' clothing, overalls, drop sheets, &c.,
to the number of 12,419, and 30,500 articles of clothing from verminous
persons were disinfested.
Making a total of 66,772 articles.
In addition thirteen boxes (maternity) and one bag were disinfected.
Twenty-eight articles were destroyed. "
https://tinyurl.com/38wsyrsm

???

Lucy Alice Howe
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Lucy Alice Howe [Lucy Alice Chandler]
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Widow
Birth Date: 24 Apr 1881
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Elmsbrook
Residence Place: Brentwood, Essex, England
Occupation: Attendant Children Clu?? [ Clinic ] - ARP First Aid
Line Number: 25
Schedule Number: 114
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: DBKY
Borough: Brentwood
Registration district: 193-1
Household Members Age
Lucy Alice Howe 58
John H Chandler 61


Marriages Sep 1948 (>99%)
Chandler John H Howe Brentwood 4a 1235
Howe Lucy A Chandler Brentwood 4a 1235



Lucy Alice Chandler
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Lucy Alice Chandler
Death Age: 92
Birth Date: 24 Apr 1881
Registration Date: Oct 1973
[Nov 1973]
[Dec 1973]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Honiton
Inferred County: Devon
Volume: 7a
Page: 1346

Just to note -

on the 1911 censuse for Richard Samuel Howe, posted by ErikaH -
the Bakers are in a different household.
Another Ancestry mistranscription.

Richard is only with his grandmother and sister.

There's a note added below the children's names "Mother away"

Dabbling, can't sleep, will remove the following posts if shown to be incorrect family

If the Netherton name is correct -

Samuel Netherton age 18 born Llanlivery, near Lostwithiel, Cornwall and a Carpenter enlisted 30.5.1863 at Plymouth to the Royal Artillery for a Bounty of £1 and free kit. Transferred to Army Service Corps April 1870

Previously in Royal Cornwall Rangers (Militia)

Served at Home (ie Britain) 1863-1878 and a month at home after Gibraltar before Discharge from Service at end of engagement.

He was in Gibraltar 1878-1883 accompanied by his wife.

Married Jane Lucy Ledford 1 April 1866 Plumstead

----------------------------------
Marr. Cert on Ancestry
Married at St Nicholas, Plumstead. Samuel was a gunner in the RA, Father William a Labourer.
Jane a spinster, Father was Edward Ledford also a Labourer
Both resident in Plumstead at time of marriage
Witnesses - W Fry and Esther Fry

1901 census posted earlier shows Samuel as a Carpenter

and here the 1891 for the family -

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Eglinton Road, Plumstead, Woolwich, London & Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Samuel Netherton Head Married Male 47 1844 Carpenter And Joiner Lanlivery, Cornwall, England
Jane L Netherton Wife Married Female 52 1839 - Blackwater, Hampshire, England
Ellen F Netherton Daughter Single Female 17 1874 Dressmaker Woolwich, Kent, England
Lucy A Netherton Daughter Single Female 9 1882 Scholar Gibraltar
William F Pellet Nephew Single Male 18 1873 Builders Apprentice Islington, Middlesex, England

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
NETHERTON, ELLEN FLORENCE LEDFORD
GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 989

Gro Army Birth Indices (1881 To 1965)

First name(s) Lucy Alice
Last name Netherton
Sex Female
Birth year 1881
Place Gibraltar
Country Gibraltar
Organisation Armed Forces
Source Gro Army Birth Indices (1881 To 1965)
Archive
General Register Office
Archive reference BARM
Record's year range 1881
Page 67
Line number 202
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Births
Collections from Great Britain, UK None

Same family 1871 - perhaps working at his trade while on "Gardening leave" if his unit not actively engaged anywhere

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Raglan Road, Plumstead, Woolwich, London & Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Samuel Netherton Head - Male 27 1844 - Cornwall, England A Carpenter
J D Netherton Wife - Female 31 1840 - Hampshire, England
W E Netherton Son - Male 3 1868 - Hampshire, England
H Albert Netherton Son - Male 1 1870 - Kent, England


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
NETHERTON, WILLIAM EDWARD LEDFORD
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in DOVER Volume 02A Page 818

NETHERTON, HENRY ALBERT LEDFORD
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 879

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
NETHERTON, SAMUEL WILLCOCK
GRO Reference: 1844 M Quarter in OF BODMIN Volume 09 Page 51

Bodmin RD covered Llanlivery

--------------------------------------
Cornwall Marriages

First name(s) William
Last name Netherton
Birth year -
Marriage year 1831
Marriage date 8 Oct 1831
Parish Lanlivery
Place Lanlivery
Groom's first name(s) William
Groom's last name NETHERTON
Bride's first name(s) Mary
Bride's last name WOOLCOCK
County Cornwall
Country England
Record set Cornwall Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Menawinke, Lanlivery, Bodmin, Cornwall, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
William Netherton Head Married Male 50 1801 Ag Lab St Winnow, Cornwall, England
Mary Netherton Wife Married Female 47 1804 - Cornwall, England
Richard Netherton Son Unmarried Male 18 1833 Taylor Lanlivery, Cornwall, England
Samuel Netherton Son - Male 7 1844 Scholar Lanlivery, Cornwall, England

St Winnow is just South of Lostwithiel
----------------------------

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Menawinke, Lanlivery, Bodmin, Cornwall, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
William Netherton Male 35 1806 Cornwall, England
Mary Netherton Female 35 1806 Cornwall, England
Richard Netherton Male 9 1832 Cornwall, England
William Netherton Male 3 1838 Cornwall, England
Ann Netherton Female 70 1771 Cornwall, England

?? As the1841 census shows an Ann Netherton with the family

Cornwall Baptisms

First name(s) William
Last name Netherton
Gender Male
Birth year 1800
Baptism year 1800
Baptism date 30 Jan 1800
Parish Lostwithiel
Father's first name(s) -
Father's last name -
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Mother's last name Netherton
Relationship Son
Place Lostwithiel
County Cornwall

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Blackwater West H, Yateley, Farnham, Hampshire, England

First name(s) Last name Sex Age Birth year Birth place
Edward Ledford Male 40 1801 Hampshire, England Ag. Lab
Lucy Ledford Female 25 1816 -
Henry Ledford Male 10 1831 -
William Ledford Male 6 1835 Hampshire, England
Lucy Ledford Female 4 1837 Hampshire, England <<<<<
Ellen Ledford Female 0 1841 Hampshire, England

I have now found some more info on my cousin's father..David Gordon Howe dob12/8/1912 father John Howe Mother Lucy Howe formerlyLetherton. Address where born 87 Bexley road,Erith Kent. Signature & Residence of informant L Howe (mother) 180 Fernhead road Paddington My cousin was told after his father's death that his father was brought up by a Mrs Hester Martin who lived at 3 cremer house Deptford Is this any help? Thank you Pat

The occupants of 87 Bexley Road in 1911

Elizabeth Emily Thomas Head Widow Female 48 1863 Sick Nurse Southampton Wortham
Benjamin Douglas Thomas Son Single Male 19 1892 Apprentice Southampton St Marys
Ellen Annie Lees Visitor Married Female 42 1869 Private Means India Bankspors Resident
Mary Ann Fall McDowall Patient Single Female 33 1878 Private Means Durham Hartlepool

and of 180 Fernhead Road, Paddington

Cooper Edward Arthur
1858

Cooper Eliza Jane
1861

Jacobs Charles Clifford
1904

Jacobs Charles William
1876

Jacobs Mary Annie
1878


Parkins Alice Rosina
1881
.
Parkins Elsie Annie
1910

Parkins William James
1880

1939.............
3 Crimen House Deptford Church Street, Deptford, Lewisham, Deptford, London, England

Hester E Martin 24 Feb 1866 Female Unpaid Domestic Dutie Widowed 125 1
Philimina Martin 08 Jun 1901 Female Drawing Frame Operator Textile Trade Hand Single 125 2

What was David’s father's occupation? (From the birth cert)

1911 for Hester - she seems to have taken in several 'unwanted' children

145 Evelyn St Deptford S E, St Paul Deptford, London & Kent, England
Hester Elizabeth Martin Head Widow Female 45 1866 At Home St Pauls Deptford
Florence Mary Ann Martin Daughter Single Female 19 1892 Spinner String St Nicholls Deptford
Philomena Elizabeth Carr Adopted - Female 9 1902 School Deptford
Marjory Evelyn Whitworth Nurse Child - Female 2 1909 - Skerton Lancaster


1901
10, Black Horse Place Deptford, St Paul Deptford, Greenwich, London & Kent
John Martin Head Married Male 37 1864 Tank Rivetter Charlton, Kent, England
Hester E Martin Wife Married Female 35 1866 - Deptford, Kent, England
Martha E Martin Daughter Single Female 15 1886 Tin Worker Deptford, Kent, England
John T Martin Son Single Male 14 1887 Van Boy Deptford, Kent, England
Lillian A Martin Daughter Single Female 11 1890 - Deptford, Kent, England
Florence M Martin Daughter Single Female 9 1892 - Deptford, Kent, England
Mabel Guichard Nursling Single Female 1 1900 - Plumstead, Kent, England

MARTIN, FLORENCE MARY ANN SOUTHGATE
GRO Reference: 1891 D Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1002

MARTIN, MARTHA ETHEL SOUTHGATE
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1029

CARR, PHILOMENA ELIZABETH -
GRO Reference: 1901 S Quarter in GREENWICH Volume 01D Page 1031

WHITWORTH, MARJORIE EVELYN (MMN) ROGERS
GRO Reference: 1909 J Quarter in LANCASTER Volume 08E Page 715

GUICHARD, MABEL -
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in WOOLWICH Volume 01D Page 1283

David Gordon Howe's father on his birth cert. was clerk General Engineers of 180 Fernhead rd Paddington. On his marriage cert. to Elsie Kathleen Fairweather it is stated as father John Howe (dec) engineer. Does any of this make sense? Pat

As you can see, they weren’t at that address in 1911, so tracing John will be less than easy.

try looking for possible deaths, to get some idea of age

Just wondering why the baby was born in Erith and they lived in Paddington

It’s a totally different area