General Chat

Operation Cygnus was carried out in 2018 to test the UK's response to a pandemic. The results and recommendations were largely ignored by the Government which resulted in them being totally unprepared for a Covid situation (eg shortage of PPE).

It's interesting that the Government refused to make public the Cygnus report, until
October of this year, after they were threatened with being sued.
It's a pretty frightening read when, as Kense said, the Government ignored it.

If you want to read it, just search for 'exercise cygnus report'.

Yes, the thalidomide disaster was horrible.

However, I doubt we have to even think about a similar thing happening during covid .................. if the EU and the UK follow the same plans as the US and Canada.

It is known that none of the covid vaccines, neither the ones approved over here (Pfizer and Moderna) nor the ones still in testing, have been tested on any of the following ................

a. People who have had covid and have antibodies from that
b. children
c. pregnant women
d. anyone who was not a healthy individual between the ages of 18 or 21 and around 40 or 45.

As a result .................. no-one in those groups is being given the vaccine, especially children and pregnant women

It is unknown as to whether people in care homes or health care workers who are first in line for the vaccine and who have had covid will react, but the intent is to vaccinate all of them. People who know that they do have antibodies are being asked here not to get the vaccine when it is offered to them.

It might be those people and all of us who are over 80 and next in line will be the guinea pigs who will show some evil responses.

It has already been shown that people who have severe allergies should not accept the vaccination if they are susceptible to anaphylactic shock to their allergies.

As a guard against severe reactions, it is now being recommended that people wait for 15 minutes after vaccination before leaving the medical centre where they receive it, so that medical staff can be available in the event of an immediate reaction.

Doctors would never dare try vaccines on pregnant women again after thalidomide, and it is believed that children suffer less than people over the age of 18.

Still to be definitely proved ..... they might end upp being asymptomatic superspreaders.


In conclusion ....... I would warn against raising the ghost of thalidomide babies, as the medical profession has been well aware of the problem since that horrible time, except in terms of warning pregnant women, or women who might be in the early stages of pregnancy that they should not risk getting the vaccine until more is known about it.

Island ....................

you need not only a strong leader, as in NZ, but you also need a population that will respond to that leader in a positive way.

THAT is what is saved NZ.

The UK does not have that.

Canada had both during the first wave, but the second wave is worse than the first one was, people are tired, and not reacting in the same way to Trudeau and the provincial health officers ................... covidiots reign, and we have had surging numbers.

I doubt very much that the UK would be in much better situation if Boris and his people had been strong from the beginning ......... and after all, Trump is poking his nose into your business, as per usual.

There is a theory that Boris exaggerated the effects of the new virus strain to reduce the blame he is suffering from cancelling most of Christmas. However other countries are taking him at his word, with the result that the main downside of our exiting the customs union is happening eleven days early.

I heard that too, Kense.
It seems about right.
The virus can't be only mutating in the UK, it's happening everywhere, but by focussing on it, other countries have to react.
Weird how the 'mutation' reached it's apparent peak just after Parliament had closed for Christmas, and MPs had gone to their 2nd or 3rd homes out of London.

Sylvia.........




Perhaps NZ politicians and sundry wealthies didn't flout the rules and have their PM, basically, laughing it off!!!

The general public, on the whole, WERE complying!

Doubt about the severity of the virus crept in after Cummings et al made it clear the rules weren't for them. Hardly surprising that the public started 'misbehaving' too!

LEAD - BY - EXAMPLE!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the crowded beach scenes in the summer and now crowds shopping. Manipulated photographs!
The crowded railway stations and packed motorways as Londoners flee the capital ahead of tier 4. More media manipulation! These people had probably planned to spend Christmas with family further north anyway, so well done Boris for causing them all to travel on the same day!

Agree, Island!

Cheers Maggie :-D

Other countries reporting mutations - Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Australia.

Seven days in an isolation hotel then a Covid test that has to be negative before being allowed out - for all those coming here from UK.

I spoke with an ex-colleague in Victoria, Oz, yesterday and they have now had 40+ days covid-free. They have just closed their borders again as far as NSW is concerned because there has been another outbreak in Sydney.

She told me that for the most part people in Victoria obeyed the rules. Also, I know from an ex-colleague now in WA (where Allan is) that her granddaughter was caught out when she was visiting another state and was unable to get home for ages once the state borders were closed.

Surprisingly, most people in OZ were better behaved than elsewhere in the western world.

The beaches in Bournemouth were crowded on more than one occasion during the summer, according to my cousin in Bournemouth. It is her local beach and even she kept away when she saw what was going on. To say that she was a bit miffed would be an understatement!

People will do as they want a fact our PM tried with lock down but who listened partied. traveling up & down the country we can't police every border not enough law officers but saying that if folk listened & helped by staying put maybe it wouldn't have spread so quickly I am so fed up of it all in our Area level 2 Dumfries Galloway but Ayrshire it's 3 so we have to stay put our local shops are open two supermarkets Co op.we have plenty of food untill panick buying my thoughts we are a greedy lot lets get back to basic keep safe Barbara

Every country will have mutations of covid - that's what viruses do!

However, our 'PM' emphasising it, in order to save face over getting Christmas wrong, and ensuring MP's could leave London, has enabled the EU to show us exactly what could happen with a 'no deal' Brexit.

As for 'staying put' - who instigated the 'Eat Out to Help Out' scheme - oh! that will be the Government. Yes, people listened to the PM - went out, ate out, and increased the infection rate.
I should imagine children travelling to and from school, with covid cases in almost every school, has helped transmit the virus, too. Overstuffed school buses don't help, either.
The government forced schools to stay open (apart, of course fro Eton, and I'm darned sure, other Private schools) despite schools saying the infection situation was getting out of hand.

Your schools must be full of the virus, here ALL children have to wear masks all of the time inside. In theory, they were meant to distance during playtime of course that was never going to happen, so now many wear the mask while playing too. Recently they started doing testing for the virus in schools and have found high numbers no surprise there. That said it has so far been in areas where there's a lot of the virus in the community already...so chicken and egg situation. Also looking at pictures from the UK often you see shoppers not wearing masks outside the stores as they walk along the road...crazy...even if I'm just walking by I'll pop a mask on!

They are Caroline, no masks in Primary and only in communal areas in secondary schools.

However the schools have no control as to how the children behave when the school bell rings at the end of the day.

Living near two large secondary schools I see hoards of them mingling together on their way home...play fighting etc...it’s what kids do


:-(

And there is another press conference around 5. Can it get even worse?

Caroline, here in the UK, my grandson, 13, has to wear a mask at all times in school except when they are eating their lunches. The school canteen is closed and children have to take in their own packed lunches.

Edit: I am in England but I can see Ann mentioned secondary schools so it may be different in Wales.

Schools have been in here in BC since September.

Elementary schools with classes in "bubbles" of maximum 30 ........ ie, one class. Masks not needed while in the bubble, but needed everywhere else in the school.

Parents could opt out of sending elementary children to school as long as there was long-distance schooling available.

High schools operate on half time ........ classes split in half, attendance could be either half days or alternating days. Long distance learning offered to the students not in school, plus extra time allowed when they were in school for consultation with teachers. Masks optional in the classroom, mandatory elsewhere in the school.

Masks mandatory for everyone on transit OR school buses.

A few (literally) schools have closed for 2 weeks or 2-3 days deep cleaning because of an outbreak, which means 6 or more people testing positive. A "bubble" may be sent home for isolation if more than 2 persons in the bubble have tested positive, 1 positive test meant a warning sent to parents of children within that bubble.

Almost all classes at post-secondary education have occurred online, unless absolutely necessary to be in person, in which case all necessary spatial distancing and safety precautions (including masks) had to in place.

No cases reported from post-secondary.

It can be done ..................... the only problem is the loss of personal contact, social activities, etc, which may lead to problems in the future for many people.

Sorry should have said Sylvia...yes Post-secondary 99% online in Ontario overall no big outbreaks there though in some towns there is with the kids in residence.
All our children from JK upwards can be taught online if they wish, High school is half and half or all online. As I said all have to wear masks inside all of the time except while eating lunch, though some 4 yr olds haven't quite got the hang of it some days :-)
We're just finishing a 28 days partial lockdown today and an official announcement to come later today but it looks like as of Boxing day we're in a full lockdown again like in the spring. In the whole of Ontario we're getting over 2000 cases a day now.
Oh well I'll still get out and about walking the dog that'll work off all the Christmas food....maybe.. :-D

Ann...I agree...once they're out here they're playing on top of each other at the park too or on the ice rink.
JoyLouise I expect your Grandson friends are like kids everywhere...once let loose they act like I don't know...kids :-D