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My father's birth cert. states his parents as John Farrell and Emma Farrell ( nee Wylie ) . My father was John Farrell born june 1915 in Bootle Liverpool We are looking for any info on his father , as it would appear that his Aunt Margaret ( Maggie) brought him up . We think John senior was the son of Michael and Alice Farrell , who had arrived from Ireland .
Any info would be much appreciated .

Marriages Mar 1914
FARRELL John Wylie W.Derby 8b 348
WYLIE Emma Farrell W.Derby 8b 348

Marriages Jun 1883 ??????
Doyel Alice Chorlton 8c 1005
DOYLE Alice Chorlton 8c 1005
Farrell Michael Chorlton 8c 1005

Can you clarify about Aunt Margaret/Maggie -- surname? More specifically, was she a sister of his father or his mother?

If his father, more info about her could help find more info about him.


He was an only child:

Births Sep 1915
Farrell John Wylie W. Derby 8b 604

so it seems likely that one or both parents died when he was young.

Had a look at CWGC, but there are so many J Farrells with no age/next of kin, to start with, that it would be a long job to read through the results with possibly no way of identifying his death, if it were there.

peter dont know if any use but my grandads sister married into farrell family she was born 1891 liverpool
they were beatrice rogers and john farrell he was born 1889 liverpool had a son john b 1914 liverpool

There was a John Farrell born @ 1890 Bootle to Michael and Margaret Farrell from Ireland. Emma Wylie 1895 Bootle dad George Wylie.

Maryb

Emma had a sister Margaret


1901 England Census
about Emma Wylie
Name: Emma Wylie
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: George
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Female
Where born: Bootle, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Bootle Cum Linacre
Ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Bootle
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 99
Household Members:
Name Age
George Wylie 36
Emma Wylie 35
Margaret M Wylie 15
Grace P Wylie 12
Georgina Wylie 10
Emma Wylie 6
George Wylie 4
William E Wylie 1

Re your PM, Peter, I hope you'll put the info here. I'm not sure whether you consider it sensitive.


Do you have the Farrell + Wylie marriage certificate? You do need to start with that, to confirm at least what name (and occupation) John Sr. stated for his father, and what age and occupation he stated for himself. And you never know what the witness names might tell you.

Btw, what occupation does he have on John Jr's birth cert?

John snr's occupation was dock labourer on dad's birth cert , but somewhere along the line , ship's engineer seems to have been mentioned.

I would like to thank everyone for their help , being new to this , I would also like to apologise for replying in the wrong manner .
The information on the marriage certificate is fantastic, considering I couldn't find out if they even got married . Once again thank you all .

jOHN AND EMMA'S WEDDING CERTIFICATE ARRIVED . We have indeed got the correct John Farrell and his father was Michael . Once again I am indebted to you all that pointed us in the right direction .

Now what site should I use for tracing Michael Farrell and his wife Margaret from Ireland

In your original post it was Michael and Alice Farrell. Now you have said:

"Michael Farrell and his wife Margaret from Ireland"

Have I missed something? ;)


Would you give all the info from the marriage certificate, then?

Both parties' fathers' names and occupations.
Both parties' ages (and occupations).
Parties' addresses.
Witnesses' names.
...

So Mary posted this birth:

There was a John Farrell born @ 1890 Bootle to Michael and Margaret Farrell from Ireland.


1891

Name: Michael Farrell
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Where born: Ireland
Occupation: Dock Labourer

Name: Margaret Farrell
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Michael
Where born: Ireland

Civil parish: Bootle
Town: Bootle
County/Island: Lancashire

Michael Farrell 44
Margaret Farrell 39
Michael Farrell 16
Margaret Farrell 10
Mary A Farrell 8
Catherine Farrell 6
Patrick Farrell 3
John Farrell 1

The children are all born in Bootle, starting with Michael and dittoed down the list.


The household in 1881 in Bootle:

Michael Farrell 36
Margaret Farrell 25
Alice Farrell 7 - born Bootle
Michael Farrell 5
Bridget Farrell 2
Peter Farrell 32 - boarder
Stephen Farrell 34 - boarder
James Crumy 40

One certainly suspects the two Farrell boarders were brothers.

Sorry Janey , you are correct , Alice was actually the first child born to Margaret and Michael .
John Farrel's father was Michael Farrell , the cert says that Michael was deceased by Feb 22 nd 1914 ( marr date )address is 26 Flint street Bootle . We have the details of the family from the 1881 & 1901census
Could anyone point me in thr right direction for trying to trace Michael and Margarets roots in Ireland ?
Emma's Father was George Wylie ,The address for them is 27 Flint street Bootle as it was in the 1911 census . So it looks as though John Farrell was possibly using the address to get the banns read in StMary's Parish
( I am correct in thinking that they had to both belong to that Parish ? )

Janey , you know the info for Michael and Margaret you posted from 1891
what site is that from ? I have same info from find my past , but 1881 census stating birth years for Michael and Margaret being 1845 and 1856 respectively . Then 1901 census being 1851 and 1853 , does this happen often ?

Okay, well, I didn't see the 1881 and 1891 in the thread, so that's why I added them -- the point being to identify children said to have been born in England.

The birth certificate of one of those children will give Margaret's birth surname. Have you looked at FreeBMD?

I always go for one of the most uncommon names.

The Alice Farrell registered in W Derby reg dist in Sept quarter 1873 might be a good bet ...


I also thought the two Farrell brothers (presumably) were worth a notice.

If they married in England, their marriage certificates will give a father's name.


You need the birth cert of a child of Michael Farrell and Margaret to get her birth surname. Otherwise, you can't be sure you have found the right Michael Farrell marriage.

There are marriages in Salford 1867, Bolton 1872 and 1873, and Chorlton 1874, Michael Farrell + a possible Margaret. It may be more likely that they married in Ireland.

The child's birth certificate is therefore an essential starting point, you see.

Sorry, missed your intervening message!

Age discrepancies are very common. It was amazing how much younger people got as they aged! My gr-grfather went to Australia and returned 7 years later without having aged a day. ;)

Yes I follow that . The brothers seem to have left their wives over in Ireland , as they are both classed as married in 1881 . So I have a feeling that if they were married in Ireland , Michael , being the elder brother must also have been married there .

Oops, I didn't follow it far enough - didn't look at the brothers' marital status in 1881!

So yes, it does look like they all likely married in Ireland, indeed.

I wonder whether the brothers show up in later censuses with wives, i.e. names that might help identify their marriages in the IGI, e.g.

Or whether any of them once gives anything better than "Ireland" as place of birth!

It's weird that there are such discrepancies between the 3 census , it's the first time I have encountered it . But I suppose it,s down to the person doing the form filling etc . I have had problems with things like Hannah and Anna though .

Aha. I was interested in Stephen because the name is better for searching.


1871

Patrick Odare 40
Ann Odare 40
John Odare 20
Patrick Bradley 12
John Bradley 14
Mary A Bradley 10
Patrick Burk 25
Christopher Pepper 27
> Michael Farrell 30 - unmarried
> Stephen Farrell 28 - married
> Peter Farrell 25 - unmarried

Civil parish: Charnock Heath
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Chorley


All boarders, all labourers, water works, all born Ireland.