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adoption??..........this thread ANSWERED

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Elaine

Elaine Report 2 Apr 2011 00:08

keep fingers xxx that it says father griffiths then,or my tracing comes to an abrupt end for that line of mi family! have got back to early 1900s on mi paternal side!

Elaine

Elaine Report 15 Apr 2011 14:34

hi janey...got the wedding cert this morning....was v. disappointed tho...gave name as jane ellen(correct forenames)kelly. just dashes where fathers name and occupation should be! is it possible to find out residents from an address? cos it says she was living at 50,queen st; wigan. her age is given as 21(wedding was in 1915), so that is right(grandma evans was born in 1894) dont know what to do now. we know DEFINITELY that grandma was married to charls anderson of the inniskillen regiment,because on her death,his war medal was passed to my aunty,as she was the eldest. she returned the medal,via(i think)the british legion,to his regiment. the plot,as they say,thickens! HOPE THIS NOW IN RIGHT PLACE!!

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 15 Apr 2011 16:28

I copied this from your PM to me and stupidly put it in your other thread. ;) So I deleted it there, but I'd sorted it out a bit first so I'll put it here for easier reading.



got the wedding cert this morning.... was v. disappointed tho...

gave name as jane ellen (correct forenames) kelly.

just dashes where fathers name and occupation should be!

is it possible to find out residents from an address? cos it says she was living at 50,queen st; wigan.

her age is given as 21(wedding was in 1915), so that is right(grandma evans was born in 1894)

dont know what to do now.

we know DEFINITELY that grandma was married to charls anderson of the inniskillen regiment,because on her death,his war medal was passed to my aunty,as she was the eldest. she returned the medal,via(i think)the british legion,to his regiment. the plot,as they say,thickens!



I think it's her, but we'll poke around some more. I have to finish a job at the moment (it's 11:30 a.m. here in central Canada) but I'll come back later!

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 15 Apr 2011 16:37

From what I can tell, the 1911 census shows families named Cottam, Holcroft, Murray and Winstanley possibly at 50 Queen, Wigan. (I haven't managed to separate out which are in Pemberton and Orell.)

And a note -- see my edit in the middle of page 3 -- I'm sure we've ruled out the Jane Kelly who was in the Jones/Kelly household in 1911, as being really Michael Kelly's daughter Lettice Mary Kelly (unfortunately known on later records as Lettuce; no wonder she called herself Jane).

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 15 Apr 2011 16:40

Hold on, question -- what does the marriage certificate say for Charles Anderson's occupation??

And age, and father.

And the witnesses, who were the witnesses?

Elaine

Elaine Report 15 Apr 2011 19:33

says his occupation at his marriage,16th feb.1915, was coal hewer...but the address given on the cert is 64,lily lane; platt bridge,and thats the address of private charles e anderson; royal inniskillen fusiliers. also my grandma lived with a woman mi a.elsie called "aunty amelia" in platt bridge. i am really getting more and more confused!

Elaine

Elaine Report 15 Apr 2011 19:39

the posting that keeps drawing me back,i dont know why,is the one in hendy llandbedrog; pwllheli....gwraig(wife)margaret pritchard(68); nith(niece)elizabeth jones(34) and (nith) jane ellen griffith(17)...i have a real feeling for this one,but realise hunches are no good

Elaine

Elaine Report 15 Apr 2011 19:42

sorry didnt say....grooms father--james henry anderson..occupation coal hewer. witnesses james speakman and lucie anderson.

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 15 Apr 2011 20:14

Right, so definitely the household we had in 1901, for Charles:

> James H Anderson 34 - born Wales - metal hewer in colliery
Winfred Anderson 36 - born Ireland
William Anderson 10
Charles E Anderson 9
> Lucy Anderson 2
39 Ward St, Hindley

In 1911 there's a Falcon family at 64 Lily Lane, Platt Bridge, unfortunately.

One loses track ... do we have Charles in 1911?

ANDERSON CHARLES EDWARD 1892 19 Bury Lancashire
ANDERSON JAMES HENRY 1867 44
ANDERSON WINIFRED 1865 46
ANDERSON WILLIAM 1891 20 Bury
ANDERSON LUCY 1899 12
ANDERSON SUSAN MARY 1904 7


Elaine

Elaine Report 15 Apr 2011 20:30

yep...in 1911 census,family had moved to radcliffe; bury. james h anderson(44); winifred anderson(46); william(20); CHARLES EDWARD(19); lucy(12)--bridesmaid at charles' wedding? and susan mary(7)

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 15 Apr 2011 21:20

So this is the household you like -- and I have nothing against genealogy by psychic flash, everybody here knows, it's just that the flash has to point to something. ;)


1911
PRITCHARD, Margaret Gwraig Gweddw 68 1843 Hendy Llanbedrog Sir Carnarvon
JONES, Elizabeth Nith Sengl 34 1877 Llanbedrog Carnarvonshire
GRIFFITH, Jane Ellen Nith Sengl 17 1894 Cashier Mwen Draper Shop Llanbedrog Carnarvonshire
Registration District: Pwllheli
Parish: Llanbedrog
Address: Hendy Llanbedrog
County: Carnarvonshire


A Margaret Pritchard in 1891

Llangian, Caernarvonshire, Wales
John Jones 63 - single, farmer, born Llangian
Margreat Pritchard 49 - widowed, sister, born Llanbedrog
John Meredith Pritchard 13 - niece obviously nephew (of head) - born Llanbedrog
Mary Griffith 8 - niece (of head) - born Llanbedrog
Thomas Jones 16 - servant - born Llangian
Elizabeth Griffith 14 - servant - born Llangian

so that one was a Jones before marriage? John Pritchard is obviously her son. Mary Griffith? What about Elizabeth Griffith, is she the Elizabeth Jones in the 1911 census??


1901

Civil Parish: Llanbedrog district 10 page 16
John Jones 73
Margaret Pritchard 56 - sister, widowed, born Llanbedrog
Eliza Griffith 11 - relative born Llanbedrog


This is the best match in 1901 for the Jane Ellen Griffith in 1911:

Civil parish: Llanbedrog district 10 page 20 - all born Llanbedrog
John Jones 64 - farmer
Jane Jones 64
Mary Jones 28
Elizath Jones 24 - daughter, single
William R Jones 14 - grandson
Jane Ellie Griffith 8 - granddaughter born Llangedrog

Could that Elizabeth Jones be Elizabeth Griffith in the 1911?



Marriages Sep 1866 ?
JONES Margaret Bangor 11b 723
PRITCHARD Robert Bangor 11b 723


I have no idea whether this has been done before ... check out one of this Margaret's children in 1881 ...


Civil parish: Llanllechid, county Bangor
Robert Pritchard 42 - slate quarryman born Llanllechid
Margaret Pritchard 41 - all others are shown as born ditto
Catherine A. Pritchard 14
John Pritchard 11
William Ph. Pritchard 9
> Jane Ellen Pritchard 6 c1875
Thomas Ch. Pritchard 3
Rowland Pritchard


Deaths Dec 1890 ?
Pritchard Robert 52 Bangor 11b 323


Could this be?

Marriages Jun 1893
Ellis Griffith Carnarvon 11b 742
Evans Ann Carnarvon 11b 742
?? Griffith John Carnarvon 11b 742
?? Pritchard Jane Ellen Carnarvon 11b 742


Or ... is that Jane Ellen actually Margaret's granddaughter ...

Births Sep 1894 ?
Pritchard Jane Ellen Bangor 11b 438

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 15 Apr 2011 21:27

If you want to pursue your psychic flash there is really nothing for it but to get these birth certificates, or at least the second two:


Births Sep 1893
Griffiths Jane Ellen Pwllheli 11b 433

Births Dec 1893
Griffith Jane Ellen Pwllheli 11b 373

Births Mar 1894
Griffith Jane Ellen Pwllheli 11b 387


You still won't be beginning to approach the certificates I got to track down and sort out my Hill/Monck boogers!

Antonia

Antonia Report 15 Apr 2011 21:31

There is a meadow street in Cardiff Glamorgan. Just a long shot.
Antonia

Elaine

Elaine Report 15 Apr 2011 21:37

just a minute..am i reading that right? did jane ellen pritchard marry john griffith,THEN married charles e anderson,THEN married mi grandad? OR did she marry john griffith,lived with charles anderson(why else would she have his medal)meaning,if john had died and she was a widow,her maiden name on marriage to mi grandad would be griffiths? but on jane ellen & eli(g/dad)s marriage record it says 10th feb 1917 eli (22)>collier>father william evans>collier TO jane ellen anderson(23)>tram collector>father william GRIFFITHS>collier. witnesses john james gregory & elizabeth ellen evans(gt aunt nellie)

Elaine

Elaine Report 17 Apr 2011 21:27

think i come to the conclusion that jane ellen was born out of wedlock to ??? kelly....hence kelly as her maiden name on her marriage to charles e anderson. only thing is..why does it say brides' father-william griffiths on wedding cert,when she married mi grandad,eli evans? unless she found out who her father was,between her 1st marriage in 1915 and her 2nd marriage in 1917? on the 2nd cert,she down as jane ellen anderson. widow

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 17 Apr 2011 21:54

Elaine, the Jane Ellen Prichard marriage to John Griffith is in *1893*. That can't be your Jane Ellen, right?

Births Jun 1873
Pritchard Jane Ellen Bangor 11b 519

What I was wondering was whether
your Jane Ellen might be the daughter of Jane Ellen Pritchard (who was the daughter of Margaret Pritchard) and John Griffiths.
- or -
your Jane Ellen might be the daughter of another daughter of Margaret Pritchard, and her birth have been registered as Pritchard.


Your *possible* Jane Ellen Griffith is living with a Margaret Pritchard in 1911. She is shown as niece, but that could be a mistake (the other woman in the household, much older, is shown as niece).


Actually, this is the more likely marriage for Jane Ellen Pritchard daughter of Margaret:

Marriages Jun 1894
Hughes Hugh Bangor 11b 806
Pritchard Jane Ellen Bangor 11b 806

Elaine

Elaine Report 17 Apr 2011 23:35

hi,janey...i've been thro all records and found that charles e anderson was only married once to jane e kelly..have traced him back thro censuses. also grandma evans had anderson (widow)on wedding cert. to mi grandad. is there any way of finding whether a child was illigitimate or not? i googled illigitimate and bastard in wigan(where she lived when she married charles e anderson?),but didnt come up with anything. also how do i find out who lived with her at 50 queen st. wigan,in 1915? the wedding to charles was at st.josephs RC church; leigh....which was a surprise,cos mi mum always said her parents were welsh methodists,and jane ellen got married first in a catholic church,then secondly in a CofE church!

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 17 Apr 2011 23:42

Before 1911, only the birth certificate will indicate the parents' marital status -- if a child is registered in its mother's surname, they were evidently not married.

There is no way to find out who lived with her at 50 Queen St in Wigan in 1915. I believe I did a search earlier here and noted that there were no surnames that seemed related living at any of the 50 Queen Sts in the Wigan area.

I don't think there can be any doubt that the marriage to Anderson in 1915 was your Jane Ellen, since all other details seem to match perfectly for the Charles Anderson groom.

Other than that, I'm just at a loss.

She could have been born to a Kelly mother who later married a Griffiths, or known that her father was Griffiths. But no Jane Ellen Kelly was born 1892-1895.

Elaine

Elaine Report 17 Apr 2011 23:54

i know ..i'm bog-eyed looking for her! would be easier if i knew her mothers name..? kelly. mi aunty doesnt even know...she said nobody told them owt in them days...if women were talking and a child entered room they'd stop talking! dont think a.elsie ever knew her gran. my mum died of breast cancer at 61..jane ellen(her mum)died age 45,after having both breasts removed thro cancer...so i'm wondering if maybe there was a faulty gene,and her mother died early with it too?

JaneyCanuck

JaneyCanuck Report 18 Apr 2011 00:49

Platt Bridge seems to be covered by Hindley in 1901.

[deleted info that doesn't relate to Aunt Amelia *Bradshaw*]

There are several Janes in Platt Bridge in 1911 who are niece, but none that looks like ours.

There are Kellys in Platt Bridge in 1911, but again, no Amelia and no Jane like ours.