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John PATERSON & Elizabeth WATSON - Scotland

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 22 Feb 2013 06:54

Looking for any leads/chn/immigration/info on this couple please...possibility he is a mariner (given as father's occupation from Australian marriage cert of a John Alexander PATERSON, aged 28 in 1905, who states these were his parents names - seems a bit early to me but you never know! John Alexander claims he was born in Robe, South Australia but no trace of it with these names.)

groom's name: John Paterson
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name:Elizabeth Watson
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date:26 Feb 1853
marriage place: Inverkip,Renfrew,Scotland
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number:M11567-5
system origin:Scotland-ODM
source film number: 1041276, 1041277

Anything at all much appreciated!

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 10:59

The names are quite common.........there could be a later marriage on Scotlands People, after the introduction of Civil Registration (1855)

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 11:00

This MAY be the couple whose marriage you have found

1861 Scotland Census
Name: John Paterson
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Elizabeth Paterson
Gender: Male
Where born: Port-glasgow, Renfrewshire
Registration number: 573/1
Registration district: Paisley High Church
Civil parish: Paisley High Church
County: Renfrewshire
Address: 28 Lady Lane
Occupation: Cooper (journeyman)
ED: 22
Household schedule number: 97
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1861_80
Household Members:
Name Age
John Paterson 26
Elizabeth Paterson 26 born Duntocher, Dunbartonshire
Allan Paterson 4
Helen Paterson 2
Elizabeth M Paterson 1 Mo

Potty

Potty Report 22 Feb 2013 11:08

Cheryly, you will need to look on scotlandspeople:

www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

it is a pay-to-view site but is very reasonable - £7 for 30 credits. It costs one credit to view search results and 5 to view the images, which are of original documents and you can download them.

Doing a search on there, there are two John Paterson/Elizabeth Watson marriages between 1885 and 1905.

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 22 Feb 2013 11:20

thanks Reggie & Potty

the 1853 marriage seems a bit early to be having a son in the mid-late 1870s but stranger things have happened in the days pre-contraception! ;-) (but 1885-1905 is too late!)

can't see them coming to SA nor any trace of them after that

helping someone with this one so wil ask her if she wants to fork out for the credits, might be worth it!

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 22 Feb 2013 11:26

When i search SP for Elizabeth Watson, I get no matches for statutory marriages 1855-1880 and no matches for Catholic marriages 1850-1880. That only leaves parish records 1850-1853.

I don't understand how you got the result above, Potty? or is it becuase i am not registered?

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 11:28

The couple on 1861 would have only been aged about 40 in 1875/6

Reggie

Reggie Report 22 Feb 2013 11:29

The years you quote are too early...check the dates Potty listed

Potty

Potty Report 22 Feb 2013 11:32

Sorry, Cherilyn, that should have been 1855 - 1905 - I thought John's birth was 1905. Have done another search and there are no marriages for those names coming up between 1855 and 1877; there is one coming up between 1877 and 1900. By playing around with the dates, that marriage was in 1882 - could John have lied about his age on the marriage?

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 22 Feb 2013 11:36

Thanks, Potty...He married in 1905 aged 28 so born c1877. Sorry for the confusion. On his son's birth cert the following year he is shown as 29.

Really doesn't seem to fit...i think he is the one born in Robe SA in 1876 but my friend does not agree despite several points of 'coincidence' (eg Boer War record), because that birth has parents Alexander & Mary Ann (nee LYNCH) (who are also a mystery!).

Might have to accept this one as a brick wall!

Potty

Potty Report 22 Feb 2013 11:56

I can't find the 1861 family in any later census although Ancestry tie them up with later Canadian censuses.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 22 Feb 2013 12:51

This may be something or nothing...
Looking at this man, I can see his1905 marriage, but I can also find him on two electoral rolls beforehand.
He was was fireman and lived at Commercial Road, Chesterfield, Fremantle
He is on both the 1903 and 1906 ERs.
The 1906 ER was possibly prepared in advance of his 1905 marriage but on both of these, there is a woman called Agnes Paterson at the same address.
The next ER is 1910 and Agnes has been replaced by his wife.

Is Agnes a previous wife, sister or his mother?

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 23 Feb 2013 02:00

ooh Anne that is interesting; he WAS a fireman! (though not sure if in mining or railways)

will definitely follow that up, great lead, thank you :-)

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 23 Feb 2013 02:05

Anne does he show up as John Alexander, or just Alexander? When you say 'replaced by his wife', do you mean Lilian Beatrice shows up at the same adddress?

found this marriage:
PATERSON ALEXANDER
Male
BATHOLMEW AGNES ANNE
Female
KALGOORLIE
reg 363
1904

He gave his address as being in the goldfields when he married in 1905...in Perth

PATERSON JOHN ALEXANDER
Male
HOGARTH LILIAN BEATRICE
Female
PERTH
reg 1436
1905


Agnes' death?:
PATERSON AGNES A
Female
PERTH
reg 1824
1953

What address is he at in 1910? And is Agnes still around, at a different address?

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 23 Feb 2013 02:11

From NLA Trove - not sure it is the same man - John Alexander died in 1955

Friday 31 July 1953
PATERSON: On July 30, 1953. Agnes Annie, beloved wife of the late Alexander Paterson, mother of Margaret (Mrs. Mepham), loving grandmother of Mary, loving sister of Mary Teresa (Mrs. Davey), beloved aunty of Maisie (Mrs. D. Caddy) and Mr. and Mrs. C. Clegg. Requiescat in pace.

Agnes was 84 when she died so born c1869 - older than John Alexander...

Mary BARTHOLOMEU married Chas DAVEY in Boulder in 1908. She died in Perth in 1956, d/o Jas J & Margaret C, aged 84. I think her husband died in Boulder in 1915.



Does John Alexander show up in the rolls in WA or SA? He gives his address as Wittenoom St, Boulder in 1905. Son was born in Kalgoorlie in 1906. By the 1930s he was at Piccadilly St, Kalgoorlie.

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 23 Feb 2013 10:11

Cherilyn,
Entered on all rolls as John Alexander Paterson
Yes, by 1910 there is only Lillian Beatrice iwith him.

I am certain that it is the same man, from the two earlier rolls...based on his occupation but will collect all the ER data and come back later.

Anne

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 23 Feb 2013 11:39

Thank you, Anne, this is amazing...well bigamy might explain why he would give the wrong parents names on his (2nd?) marriage! How very intruiging...so maybe when Agnes' death notice refers to him as 'the late' it was because he was presumed dead?

The only thing bugging me is that Kalgoorlie-Boulder would have been a small place to be able to hide in plain sight, especially as it appears Agnes' sister lived there too! Perhaps John told people he had a twin brother named Alexander lol :-D

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 23 Feb 2013 11:42

Where was daughter Margaret in all this I wonder? Can't find her birth in WA at all...

Marriage:
MEPHAM HARRY
Male
PATERSON MARGARET A
Female
PERTH
reg 266
1931


Death:
MEPHAM
MARGARET ALEXANDER
Female
[aged] 55
[father] ALEXANDER
[mother] AGNES A
PERTH
reg 2908
1959

GlasgowLass

GlasgowLass Report 23 Feb 2013 14:37

I will collect the ER data but am certain that the Alexander Paterson who married Agnes Annie Bartholemew is a different man because they married in 1904.
It doesn't quite fit the info

Cherilyn's man was defintely John Alexander Paterson and he appeared on the 1903 roll with someone called Agnes Paterson
ERs are prepared months in advance, and the 1903 roll was most likely to have been collated in 1902..... thats almost 2 yrs prior to the marriage in question.

۞ Cherilyn ۞

۞ Cherilyn ۞ Report 23 Feb 2013 14:41

oh I see what you mean....so that must be a different Agnes with JA in 1903?!

Do Alexander & Agnes show up elsewhere together as I can see Agnes Annie PATERSON in 1903 & 1906 in Fremantle then 1910 & 1916 in Coolgardie/Kalgoorlie, then in Perth 1925-1949 (but can't see who she is with)

Oddly enough the first 4 are the same places as John Alex - this man is doing my head in!!!