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ADVICE/HELP WANTED FOR LOCATING USA FAMILY

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Alan

Alan Report 23 Jun 2014 15:50

Last week I received "out of the blue" as they say a request for information on one of the families I am researching which surprised me but at the same time excited me. My Great Grand Father has a sister Angelina who was born in 1842 in Dover Kent. The only other information I have is that in 1859 she had a son who she named Robert and the surname on his Birth certificate is TINNUCCI and the Father's name is recorded as Robert William Gordon. After that, they both disappear and I could not locate a marriage for Angelina nor a death for her and Robert. Now the "good" news.

This individual was asking for info on the brother of her Great Grand Mother Angelina who came to the USA in 1886 with her 7 children. I replied and asked if it was the Angelina who was born in 1842 and received the reply it was. Further emails ensued and I was asked for info on the family as she had no info other than her line to Angelina and a slight knowledge of the brother and parents. They had no knowledge of other members of the family which I have.

In times past, one side of the family asked for information with a promise of giving me their information, but it was never forth coming. Based on this, I replied and said that I was willing to provide all that I had but asked if they could provide me with the link back from themselves to Angelina so that I could tie it in with my tree. I did say that I hope that they would not be offended by what I had said as it was not my intention to upset.
I guess they were offended as I have heard nothing since. Before I was getting a reply almost within 5 hours but I wrote again expressing that I hoped that I had not offended and was still willing to exchange information, but have not received a reply.

Now this is where I need your advice and help. I know how to trace the UK family "backwards" How do I go about this with the USA records? I have access to the USA Ancestry. All I have is the contacts name but I have no idea as to if they are single or married and how old they are, I am guessing they must be 40+ possibly 50+ if Angelina [1842] is their GGrandmother.
Any advice would be appreciated. I have the individuals name and will provide it in a personal message to anyone who may be able to help as I feel on a persoaml level that it would not be right to put living names in the public domain
Many Thanks
Alan

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 23 Jun 2014 16:23

Births Jun 1842 (>99%)
------------------------------------------
Tinmis Angelina Dover 5 105
Tinnis Angelina Dover 5 105


Births Mar 1860 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------
TINNUCHI Robert Strand 1b 440

(is this who you mean?)

Chris :)

Gins

Gins Report 23 Jun 2014 16:29

Not sure if you have this?



1861 England Census


Name:
Auglangia Tunnachia
[Angelina Tunnachia]

Age:19

Estimated birth year:1842

Relation:Daughter

Mother's name:Janet Tunnachia

Gender:Female

Where born:Dover, Kent, England


Civil Parish:Westminster St James

Ecclesiastical parish:St Luke

County/Island:Middlesex

Country:England


Registration district:St James Westminster

Sub-registration district:Berwick Street

ED, institution, or vessel:7


Household schedule number:474

Piece:61

Folio:81

Page Number:70

Household Members:


Janet Tunnachia 50 <<Scotland
Auglangia Tunnachia 19
Matthew Tunnachia 20 <<Newcastle
Barthomely Tunnachia 14 <<Isle of white
Maria Louisa Tunnachia 9 <<France
May Carmichael 38
Joseph Riva 49



They certainly got about a bit!

rootgatherer

rootgatherer Report 23 Jun 2014 17:00

According to a few trees on Ancestry, this is her marriage

Name: Angelina Tennuci
Registration Year: 1900
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Portsmouth
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2b
Page: 905


Records on Page:
Name
George Willard Brown
William Henry Cates
Alice Elizabeth Newton
Angelina Tennuci

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 23 Jun 2014 17:05

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1328214

(Family on above)

Chris :)


I am interested in finding any info on William Henry Cates who lived at 25 Maitland Street (Portsea Southampton) in 1900. His father is listed as Joseph Henry Cates (bricklayer). He married Angelina Tennuci on 28th Aug 1900. They possibly had 2 children.

http://www.curiousfox.com/vill100/Sussex70092_1.html


1901 ?
William H Cates Head Married Male 22 1879 Coachman (Not Domestic) Portsmouth, Hampshire
Angelina Cates Wife Married Female 18 1883 - Croydon, Surrey
Street Union Street
Parish Portsmouth
County Hampshire
Country England
Municipal ward Portsea
Parliamentary borough Portsmouth
Registration district Portsmouth
Enumeration district 3
Series RG13
Piece number 992
Folio number 56
Page 11


edits (with below)

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1334961

(google brings up above 'Thread', where it is noted the below Marriage on Ancestry shows Angelina as a witness, so not married at that time)


Marriages Jun 1872 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------
LE BRUNE Maria Wandsworth 1d 831
PERRIAN John Wandsworth 1d 831

Chris :)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 23 Jun 2014 22:19

Alan, could you just clarify what it is you want help with? Is it tracing the person that you had contact with and who is now not replying? If they don't wish to reply then I don't (personally) think it's of any benefit giving any of us their name.

Or is it tracing Angelina in the USA, or before she went? If she didn't go there until 1886 then surely her time in England before that needs to be clarified - if her son was born 1859 and she didn't go to USA until 1886 then that's 27 years to account for.

The 1900 marriage to William Cates on Ancestry trees doesn't relate to the lady born in 1842, it relates to this one:

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: Angelina Eliza Tennuci
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 1882
Baptism Date: 1882
Baptism Place: Croydon, Surrey, England
Father: Charles Tennuci
Mother: Harriet
FHL Film Number: 994334
Reference ID: - 2:2TN4H4S

This is evidenced by her age on the 1901 census above.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 23 Jun 2014 22:36

Is this Angelina in 1861?

(From your thread http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1319590?page=1)

1861 England Census
Name: Auglangia Tunnachia [Angelina Tunnachia]
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: 1842
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Janet Tunnachia
Gender: Female
Where born: Dover, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Westminster St James
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address: Portland Mews
Occupation: Unmarried
Condition as to marriage: Needlewoman

Registration district: St James Westminster
Sub-registration district: Berwick Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 474
Piece: 61
Folio: 81
Page Number: 70

Household Members:
Name Age
Janet Tunnachia 50 - married, wardrobe dealer. born Scotland
Auglangia Tunnachia 19
Matthew Tunnachia 20 - mariner, born Newcastle, Northumberland
Barthomely Tunnachia 14 born Isle of Wight
Maria Louisa Tunnachia 9 born France
May Carmichael 38 - lodger
Joseph Riva 49 - Janet's brother, born Scotland

If so, what happened to her baby born 1859?

EDIT: I see Gins posted this earlier. But the baby question needs answering.

patchem

patchem Report 23 Jun 2014 23:10

Just been reading that other thread.
'Connie' appears to have deleted quite a few posts, unfortunately.
Waiting to hear about the baby and the other children of Angelina.
Would have been useful if Alan had mentioned the variety of surnames in the initial post
Alan,
Was it on this site that you were approached - as no-one else appears to have Angelina in their tree (unless a less obvious variant of her name)?
Is Robert William Gordon the father with surname Gordon, but not married, the information from the birth certificate?

Alan

Alan Report 23 Jun 2014 23:56

Many thanks for all the info provided which I do have already. There are 2 Angelina's. The one born in 1842 is the one I am looking for info on as the other one is my grandmother. The site I was approached on is Ancestry.

I cannot find any info on Angelina from the birth of her son either in census or any other record. I have tried all combinations of the surname plus just using her first name with just birth details but nothing.

I cannot locate any info re her going to the USA or arriving in the USA but I know it's there as the person who contacted me input Angelina's daughters Christian name of Jessie and found the info. She has however failed to tell me the surname she used. Personally the father's name of Gordon on the birth cert I believe to be fiction. They were a strong Italian Catholic family and a child born out of wedlock would be a "sin" and a stain.on the family. The family did go to France from c1849-c1860 where a daughter was born to Angelina's parents. OnlyAngelina's mother and her siblings came back to the UK..
I have the contacts surname and was wondering how easy it would be to trace her details, her parent's details and so on back to Angelina.

+++DetEcTive+++

+++DetEcTive+++ Report 24 Jun 2014 00:18

If you only have her married name, then its going to be difficult finding her maiden name. On line US marriages on Ancestry are rather haphazard.

If her name is relatively unusual & you have some idea where she lives, you could search the Public Record Indexes, then re-search with the surname and the listed address.

http://www.whitepages.com/ is one of the US on-line phone books. If a listing for her can be found, there is usually a link to 'people X knows' who are normally relatives of some description. One can often work out who is married to who, and if you're lucky a parent.

There is no national database for births or marriages as they are all held at State level. The exception is the SSDI which can also be found (for free) on Family Search.

From what you've intimated, can we assume that the lady's Ancestry tree is Private?

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 24 Jun 2014 07:58

Alan, you say "I cannot find any info on Angelina from the birth of her son either in census or any other record."

Could you please confirm whether or not the 1861 census posted above is the correct family?

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 24 Jun 2014 08:29

Births Jun 1864 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
TINUCHI Angelina Jessie Strand 1b 463

(probably relates too!)

Chris :)

edits (yes, 'Search All Member Trees' Alan)

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 24 Jun 2014 09:56

That little girl may have died:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Angelina Tinuchi
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Registration Year: 1867
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 3
Registration district: St Giles
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 375

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 24 Jun 2014 09:59

The brother of Angelina b1842 also had children born Strand, London

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: John Charles Tinnuchi
Registration Year: 1867
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Strand
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1b
Page: 527

England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name: John Charles Tinuchi
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 Jul 1867
Baptism Date: 11 Aug 1867
Baptism Place: Saint Martin IN The Fields,Westminster,London,England
Father: Bartholomew Tinuchi
Mother: Christina
FHL Film Number: 561147, 561148, 561149

So, the girl born 1864 might have been his.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 24 Jun 2014 10:37

Brother Bartholomew emigrated to USA c1866, he's on the 1900 & 1910 census and he has a daughter Jessie. He died in Pennsylvania 1910, daughter Jessie was the informant. Bartholomew and wife Frances had 3 children but only Jessie survived.

I'll not post the records as Alan says he has access to US records so will no doubt wish to find the info himself.

Potty

Potty Report 24 Jun 2014 11:00

There is a birth for a Robert Gordon on the same page as the one for Robert Tinnuchi and as the father is actually named on the birth cert he must have been present at the registration, so it does not look as if Angelina was married to him. At that time the child's surname did not appear on the birth registration and was assumed to be the same as the mother's. So, Anglina was still Tinnuchi and not Gordon.

Alan

Alan Report 24 Jun 2014 13:39

Many thanks for all of the help being offered.

MarieCeleste: The 1861 census is the same family. Due to language difficulties and the possibility that neither parents could read etc, they had to rely on the person recording the entry spelling the surname. I do have the census records relating to Bartholomew and his 2nd wife Frances who incidently is a bigamous marriage as his first wife is alive and well living in Canada.

Chris Ho :) The Angelina Jessie U mentioned is the daughter of Angelina'a brother Paul and died aged 3 as MarieCeleste posted.

MarieCeleste

MarieCeleste Report 24 Jun 2014 15:46

Hi Alan, I've replied to your pm about Bartholomew's death (it was Ancestry).

Regarding the 1861 census - the reason I asked was because you said you had no record of Angelina after the birth of the baby in 1859. But - she's there with the family in 1861.

Chris Ho :)

Chris Ho :) Report 25 Jun 2014 07:11

Pennsylvania, Death Certificates, 1906-1944 (Ancestry)

(just noticed this was Updated yesterday)


Bartholmew Tennucci 1848 26 Dec 1910 Wilkinsburg, Allegheny Joseph Tennucci,
Jessie Reever
View Record


Mrs Frances Tennuci 1865 19 Aug 1937 Wilkinsburg, Allegheny Wildon Lynch,
Frances Tidball
View Record


Robert John Gordon 1864 16 Feb 1923 Philadelphia, Philadelphia Robert Gordon,
Angelina Tennuci

Chris :)

Alan

Alan Report 25 Jun 2014 07:39

Apologies for the confusion MarieCeleste.

Chris Ho: That info is great. Stupid me, I didn't think to check the Deaths on Ancestry but to have the death of Robert recorded, opens avenues as they might just be married so I will look for Angelina Gordon.

I might hit gold. Thanks :-D :-D :-D