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I am now aged 87 with not long left and have never been able to find any information as to Mary's whereabouts after she got married. Mary was born 1898 in Rowley Regis Staffordshire and moved to ABERCRAVE SOUTH WALES with her parents she gave birth to my mother at a young age and out of wedlock in 1913, she then married Edmund Jones in 1913 June at Pontypridd (Mary is suddenly now aged 21) and had a second child in 1917, Edmund John JONES, who unfortunately lost his life on D Day .I have no further knowledge of their life after...this date.

It would be nice if someone out there can help me find this information so as to close this chapter of my family tree before I go.

For our info - your family?

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
18, Turners Hill, Rowley Regis, Dudley, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John Allen Head Married Male 30 1871 Stone breaker quarry Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, England
Alice Allen Wife Married Female 30 1871 - Oldbury, Worcestershire, England
Mary Ellen Allen Daughter - Female 3 1898 - Oldbury, Worcestershire, England
John Allen Son - Male 2 1899 - Oldbury, Worcestershire, England

---------------------
1911 Census For England & Wales
5 Gadds Green Oakham Dudley, Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alice Allen Head Married Female 40 1871 - Worcester Oldbury
Mary Ellen Allen Daughter - Female 13 1898 None Worcester Oldbury
John Allen Son - Male 12 1899 School Worcester Oldbury
Annie Allen Daughter - Female 8 1903 - Staff Rowley Regis
Edith Allen Daughter - Female 6 1905 - Staff Rowley Regis
William Thomas Allen Son - Male 2 1909 - Staff Rowley Regis


Alice says she has been married 15 years and had 6 children - 1 of whom has died.

Are these the correct 2 births?

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
JONES, EDMUND JOHN ALLEN
GRO Reference: 1917 M Quarter in PONTARDAWE Volume 11A Page 1828

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Jun 1913 (>99%)
Allen Elizabeth Allen Pontardawe 11a 2269

CORPORAL
EDMUND JOHN JONES
Service Number: 6020542
Regiment & Unit/Ship
Suffolk Regiment

1st Bn.

Date of Death
Died 06 June 1944

Age 27 years old

Buried or commemorated at
LA DELIVRANDE WAR CEMETERY, DOUVRES

IV. G. 6.

France

Commonwealth War Graves Commission
Country of Service
United Kingdom
Additional Info
Son of Edmund and Mary Ellen Jones, of Abercrave, Glamorgan; husband of F. E. Jones, of Abercrave.
Personal Inscription
AT THE GOING DOWN OF THE SUN AND IN THE MORNING WE SHALL REMEMBER HIM

? In 1921 - as Allen

First name(s) Last name Birth year Birth place Parish Registration district County
Elizabeth Allen 1913 Abercrave, Breconshire, Wales Ystradgynlais Higher Pontardawe Glamorganshire

Elizabeth, Alice, Mary Ellen and 4 others are on this record

Find My Past holds the 1921 census - even if not a member you can search results and then pay to look at the transcript or original version of the census so you'll see full details

Mary Ellen herself -
Mary Ellen Allen 1897 Oldbury, Worcestershire, England

also there - Mary Ellen's Mother
Alice Allen 1870 Oldbury, Worcestershire, England

her brother -
John Allen 1899 Oldbury, Worcestershire, England

sister
Edith Allen 1905 Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, England

Do you have the 1913 marriage certificate - could you give all details about Mary Ellen and Edmund please

Also do you have full DOB's for them and for Elizabeth - did she marry, who too, where and when

The son's marriage?

Marriages Jun 1940 (>99%)
Jones Edmund J Stock Thurrock 4a 2346
Stock Florence E Jones Thurrock 4a 2346

Not in Abercrave in 1939

ALLEN, MARY ELLEN SMITH
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 819

Marriages Jun 1895 (>99%)
Allen John W. Bromwich 6b 1156
Smith Alice W. Bromwich 6b 1156

Not with her birth family
1939 Register
Mount View, Ystradgynlais, Ystradgynlais R.D., Breconshire, Wales
Alice Allen 25 May 1872 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 161 1 Head
John Allen 02 Feb 1899 Male Colliery Surface Labourer Single 161 2 Son
William T Allen 22 Aug 1908 Male Colliery Hewer Single 161 3

ALLEN, WILLIAM THOMAS SMITH
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in DUDLEY Volume 06C Page 27

The poster's mother, Elizabeth, should be on 1939 with at least one closed record, but I can't see any sign under Allen, Jones, or Hickey
Not that her whereabouts has any bearing on her mother's......................

Mary Ellen is JONES in 1921 - FMP have made a mess of the transcription

There is another child..............Richard Stanley Jones, aged 1year 6 months

Births Mar 1920 (>99%)
Jones Richard S Allen Pontardawe 11a 2501

???
Deaths Jun 1930 (>99%)
Jones Richard S 10 Pontardawe 11a 922

Son Edmund is not recorded in 1921 with his mother

Thank you, posters, for the information, I been able to find most of what you have given me it's just From Marys marriage onwards that is missing and cannot find Anyware, details from her wedding Certificate as follows FOR greyghost

General registry Office App number 3584667/1 date 11/06/1913 Pontypridd, Glamorgan
Edmund Jones aged 22 Collier, Mary Ellen Allen 21 Spinster
Residence 61 High Street Treorchy
father's names, Edmund Jones and John Allen
Certificte no WMXZ 285215 MARY BORN 1898 EDMUND 1897

The 7 people in the household in 1921.

1) Alice
Allen
1870
Oldbury, Worcestershire, England
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire

2) Mary Ellen
Allen
1897
Oldbury, Worcestershire, England
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire

3) Richard Stanley
Jones
1920
Pontardawe, Glamorganshire, Wales
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire

4) Edith
Allen
1905
Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, England
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire

5) Elizabeth
Allen
1913
Abercrave, Breconshire, Wales
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire

6) John
Allen
1899
Oldbury, Worcestershire, England
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire

7) William Thomas
Allen
1908
Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, England
Ystradgynlais Higher
Pontardawe
Glamorganshire


1911 Census For England & Wales
5 Gadds Green Oakham Dudley, Rowley Regis, Staffordshire, England

Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alice Allen Head
Married Female 40 1871 - Worcester Oldbury
Mary Ellen Allen Daughter
- Female 13 1898 None Worcester Oldbury
John Allen Son
- Male 12 1899 School Worcester Oldbury
Annie Allen Daughter
- Female 8 1903 - Staff Rowley Regis
Edith Allen Daughter
- Female 6 1905 - Staff Rowley Regis
William Thomas Allen Son
- Male 2 1909 - Staff Rowley Regis

Edmund John Jones

in the Glamorgan, Wales, Workhouse Registers, 1850-1920

Merthyr Tydfil Union
Name: Edmund John Jones
Record Type: Discharge
Birth Date: 23 Dec 1916
Admission Date: 19 Sep 1921
Discharge Date: 12 Jul 1924
Discharge Place: Glamorgan, Wales
Father:
Edmund Jones
Mother:
Mary Ellen Jones
Next of Kin Name: Elizabeth Allen, Richard Stanley
Address of father: not known
Address of mother: 10 Brookland Terrace, Abercrave


The mother and 3 children, who were deserted by Edmund Jones in 1919, were received by the Pontardawe Union in a non-settled account. The mother deserted the children in Feb 1924, consequently they were admitted to the Pontardawe Workhouse and later transferred here.

Discharged c/o Grandmother Mrs allen, 14 Brookland? Terrace, Abercrave, nr Swansea.


Notes 4/10/1921 Warrant for father still remained and Edmund was adopted to the Board until he was 18.

Richard and Elizabeth are also included.


HAVE EDITED THIS.

It might help if we knew Mary Ellen's full birth date.

As Edmund and Mary Ellen had both deserted the children by 1924, as in the workhouse record above, it seems possible that Edmund John's CWGC record is misleading.

Perhaps it doesn't mean that Edmund and Mary were together in Abercrave in 1944, but simply that they were his parents. Abercrave may have been assumed, because his widow lived there.

On the other hand, without any evidence one way or the other, they may indeed have got back together between 1924 and 1944.




Possible death of the mother Alice ??

Alice Allen
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Alice Allen
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: abt 1872
Registration Date: Jul 1955[Aug 1955] [Sep 1955]
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration District: Ystradgynlais
Inferred County: Brecknockshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 64

Only 3 miles away from Abercraf / Abercrave, where she was said to be living in 1924, and she was in .Ystradgynlais in 1921.
The two places are only 3 miles apart.

Mary Ellen was born in 1897, as per her birth registration which I posted at 11.31

Yes, but the exact date might be helpful in pinpointing her death.

However, it sounds as if Michael doesn't have her birth cert.



I've wondered about this death - if she was indeed living in Abercraf in 1944, and if maybe her middle name has been entered as Helen instead of Ellen by mistake.
I know it's a stab in the dark!:

Mary H Jones
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mary H Jones
Death Age: 56
Birth Date: abt 1898
Registration Date: Oct 1954[Nov 1954] [Dec 1954]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: Ystradgynlais
Inferred County: Brecknockshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 67

There are far too many Mary Joneses.

My remark was directed at the OP, who persists in saying she was born in 1898 :-S :-S
He should get her birth cert

Michael only refers to her birth as being in 1898 in his OP, easy to do if only going by census records.

Michael - census asked for age at time of census, so if age 3, they take 3 from ie 1901 and make 1898. However the person could be just 3 or nearly 4 so could be born 1897/98

the year of birth and place of birth are given correctly on the 1921 census

- below will be Mary Ellen's birth registration taken from the GRO site which shows mmn. You need to register, but searches are free. You can order her birth certificate through the site (payment required) and when you have it come back to this thread and let us know her full DOB and other details.

You can order and have a pdf sent to your computer (cheapest option). This could help in finding her death as later deaths give a DOB (as far as the person registering the death knew) or finding her on the 1939 register. Even if the year is wrong, often the day and month are correct.

West Bromwich is the Registration district which covers Oldbury where the 1901 and 1911 census records show she was born (v. close to Rowley Regis where the family are on those census)

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
ALLEN, MARY ELLEN SMITH
GRO Reference: 1897 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 819

The death found by ArgyllGran could be her - too early to give a full DOB but the informant may be a relative. The age would be year out, but that's not unusual, as she would have turned 56 in the first half of 1953 / 57 in 1956. Again order from the GRO site.