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FINDING WHERE SOMEONE BURIED

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Joanne

Joanne Report 26 Mar 2010 09:20

Where can I get a cd like that. You all seem to be very up and informed on this site. its making me feel very inadequate ha! . I can't believe that people out there have the time to help plebs like me I seem to be on here all the time and still not getting it right. Thanks so much for your help Jo

Annabel

Annabel Report 26 Mar 2010 10:00

Joanne a few years ago I was a beginner made lots of mistakes, but with help at times from some great people on here, and joing ancestry,and other sites, seaching Free BMD I now able to help others if I can, not as quick as most, and being in OZ wake up when you are going to bed.





My CD I got from the Oxfordshire family history society you can order on line.

from my CD
Woolstone was a chapel of ease under Uffington which until 1974 was in the county of Berkshire then Oxfordshire, the registers of Woolstone commence in 1849 before that in Uffingdon

I do not have Uffingdon records


cheers Annabel

Joanne

Joanne Report 26 Mar 2010 10:17

Hi I have just looked through the census information that I have and in 1871 in township of Woolstone. Alfred Rivers is living with Martha PRIOR and children emily henry and ann. So where does Weavens come in please? i have to go work but baack later thanks.

Joanne

Joanne Report 26 Mar 2010 10:31

Hi Can't believe I am talking to someone in Oz amazing. I have family there to but Im not even going down that road ha! I was most interested to read what you put but I have an 1871 census from Woolstone and the reason I said she was Martha Prior was that is what it states on that census. I have no idea where Martha Weavens??? fits in unyet it all looks like the right people and the ages of the children etc all fit. Have to go work but good chatting with you and thanks for help. Jo Sleep well

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 26 Mar 2010 11:41

Hi Joanne, I haven't deserted you but am a bit busy. Will hopefully be back later this afternoon and maybe we should start at the beginning again. Cx.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 26 Mar 2010 13:03

It is Emily's age at death that is bothering me - in 1912 she should be 44 not 54, if she is the daughter of Alfred and Martha (Prior/Weavens - to be investigated further). The GRO record definitely says 54, but we all know mistakes can be made.

Joanne, does the burial record at Didcot give her age? They should be able to tell you who else is buried in the grave (even if it were a pauper's grave, it might give some clues).

Am busy for the next few hours, back later.

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 26 Mar 2010 15:20

I agree Meg. I am concerned that the death record you have Joanne, may not be your Emily Rivers.


Joanne, do you have your grandmother's death certificate?



On the 1871 census it does say Martha Prior but I cannot find a marriage between an Alfred Rivers and a Martha Prior BUT, there is the marriage between Alfred Rivers and Martha Weavens.

I cannot find a birth for this Martha Weavens. A mystery lady indeed.



Will have another think. Cx.





Joanne

Joanne Report 26 Mar 2010 16:54

Hi. Thanks again for all the help. I too am busy today so I may have to give this a miss till much later. but if it helps I found Martha Prior in 1843 births apr.may.june Wantage V1 page 254. I still think it is Prior I have looked at every census so far and its her. there is also a death record I found today that says Martha Rivers died aged 57 wantage 2c 271. jan. feb. march 1900. see you later jo

Joanne

Joanne Report 26 Mar 2010 16:58

Hi Im not sure if you can see all thelinks that I have sent to Cynthia but I do still believe that it is Martha Prior born Wantage apr.may.june 1843 V1 254 and died jan.feb.march aged 57 wantage 2c 271. I thought it best to clarify this first if I could before I moved onto Emily/ What do you think and witch way would you work. do you want to see my tree as far as I know it? thanks for help. me out tonight so check in later thanks Jo

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 26 Mar 2010 18:05

Hello Joanne. When you post something on here we all see it so don't worry.

If you could answer the questions though, that would be really helpful.

a) Do you have Emily's death certificate?

b) Where did you get Emily's death information from?





Hi Annabel (if you're still with us) , isn't it strange about that Weavens marriage - may I ask if you have seen any other with that name on your cd?


Cx.

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 26 Mar 2010 18:36

There is apparently a Martha Weavan born ca 1844 .......... but in Lambeth, Surrey.

There is a Public Family Tree on ancestry that has her in it ..... unfortunately, it only shows her upto 1951, when she is living in Southwark St Saviour, London with her parents and brother Thomas (on the census it is shown as Wevan, but the tree definitely has Weavan).



am I just muddying the water even more????????????/




sylvia

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 26 Mar 2010 18:39

I am curious that that marriage registration for Alfred Rivers and martha Weavens only has 2 names showing ........ on freebmd.org.uk


There are usually 4 or 8 names per page


This means that there are some names missing, and it may well be that the missing names might possibly include Martha Prior




sylvia

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 26 Mar 2010 18:57

well now


could this be Martha Weavens in 1851???



1851 Census

Name: Martha Wavins
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1845
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Woolstone, Berkshire, England

Civil parish: Woolstone
County/Island: Berkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Faringdon
Sub-registration district: Shrivenham

John Wavins 46 b.ca 1805, Woolstone, Ag Lab
Ann Wavins 48 b.ca 1803, Eastbury, Berkshire
James Wavins 24
Emma Wavins 16
George Wavins 13
Thomas Wavins 12
Joseph Wavins 9
Martha Wavins 6

Address:- House (!!!!!)



all children born Woolstone




sylvia

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 26 Mar 2010 20:01

A mistranscription? Hmm.. Thanks Sylvia. I guess we will have to wait till Joanne gets back. :) Cx.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 26 Mar 2010 20:02

Hi Joanne, you have been given a lot of information, it's a lot to take in in a couple of days when you're new to it all, so don't worry if you don't absorb it all at once.

My concern is whether or not we are looking at the right family.

I appreciate you trying to answer everybody, but would you please read through this carefully and answer my questions, cos I think answers are needed in order to get this right for you. And I think others would like to see the answers.

Agreed, there is only one Joseph Edward Rivers born - anywhere - and that was in Wantage in 1889, and you have his birth cert, mother Emily, no father. But your grandfather might not have been registered as Joseph Edward Rivers, his mother might have used only one Christian name, and his surname might not have been Rivers but his mother later married a Rivers and he adopted that name.

The birth you have found is in Wantage, but he marries and lives in Bideford. I am no historian, but I can't imagine young people moving from one of the most growing industrial and commercial areas of England not long after the war, to Bideford (which is a lovely place).

So the first thing you need is his marriage to Mabel Augusta Harris to confirm there is no father named on it. Won't you be angry with yourself if you find there is a father and you haven't considered him?

But perhaps you have already got it - if so who were the witnesses on it? And what was Joseph's occupation and the occupation of his father?

If you decide your Joseph is the Wantage laddie, and you have his birth certificate, the next problem is Emily Rivers, his mother.

You say "the death records show her as dying 26 June 1912". What death records are these? Do you have her death certificate? If so, what age does it give, and who registered the death?

You have found a possible burial in Didcot, but the church says she died on 5th May 1912. Can they tell you what age she was? And who was she buried with?

Because the only death we can find in 1912 of Emily Rivers gives her as being 54 - and this does not tie up with the Emily we have found on the 1871, 1881 and 1891 census.

I am then a little bothered about her being buried in a churchyard, as you say she was likely poor and possibly in a paupers' grave. By 1912, that would likely have been in a Municipal cemetery and not a Church graveyard (though not impossible)

There are a lot of unanswered questions (for yourself, I mean) here Joanne, and you need to attack them one at a time, working backwards in time.

So start with the marriage cert of your grandparents.

I will now go and look closer at this mystery Martha Prior/Weavens in case it all turns out to be the right family.

I and others just want to make sure you research the right family. I did loads of stuff myself on a particular family, convinced it was right, and it turned out to be absolute rubbish.

Best wishes

Margaret

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 26 Mar 2010 20:44

Cynthia

I looked for w*v?n* b 1844 +/- 5 years ...... just to see what would come up.

The wild card * looks for one or more letters, while ? looks for any one letter


Most results of course had nothing to do with the family on here, but that Martha Wavins b. ca 1844, Berkshire just leapt out at me.



Joanne ......... I honestly think that you are moving too fast, and ordering certifiates much too soon.


As Madmeg says, you should get the marriage certificate for Joseph and Mabel Augusta Harris, if you do not already have it. Do NOT buy any other certificate until you have this one.

Then we can start working back from some certain ground.




sylvia

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 26 Mar 2010 20:51

ah

not Mabel Augsta on freebmd

Marriages Mar 1921 (>99%)

Harris Mabel A Rivers Bideford 5b 1031
Rivers Joseph E Harris Bideford 5b 1031





gotta go and do things ..... like writing the weekly shopping list!!



sylvia

Cynthia

Cynthia Report 26 Mar 2010 21:13

I learn all the time. Thanks Sylvia.

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 26 Mar 2010 21:15

Sylvia, she is Mabel Augusta on death:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Mabel Augusta Rivers
Name: Mabel Augusta Rivers
Birth Date: 18 Sep 1890
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: Bideford
Inferred County: Devonshire
Volume: 21
Page: 0916

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 26 Mar 2010 21:32

I don't think we can do anything else till Joanne has the marriage cert of Joseph to Mabel.

I have emailed Oxford and given them a sob story about the difficulties of finding the death of Emily Rivers in 1912. Wrong date of death, wrong age, possible wrong burial. Will see what transpires, but will probably be Monday before they respond. I am generally good at such things, but no guarantees.

Agreed, Sylvia, moving too fast. We've all done it.