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I feel robbed.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

♥Athena

♥Athena Report 17 Feb 2006 15:14

Zoe - not sure that Warehouseman would necessarily mean he was a clerk in the office section. He may have just been doing manual labour in the actual warehouse itself, in which case the jump from one to the other would not be so great. I have various men in my family tree who early on were 'warehousemen', then later on they are a 'labourer'. Leah

Zoe

Zoe Report 17 Feb 2006 15:16

Leah was replying to Suzy's census find which I'm sure originally said Clerk. Maybe I'm going loopy. Z x

♥Athena

♥Athena Report 17 Feb 2006 15:20

LOL - I think I'm going loopy now..the clerk bit is mentioned in a later post of hers...how strange. Anyway...I still believe that the family found on the 1881 census is the same as the family on the 1891 census - his mother, Jane, is living with him in 1891 and the birth year is about the same as the Jane in 1881. Too many coincidences, I think., Now, if this is the right Henry...whatever happened to wife Rose?

~~♥Suzy♥~

~~♥Suzy♥~ Report 17 Feb 2006 15:23

Hi girls I definately said Warehouseman first (1891) and I didn't change it. I only said clerk when I posted the 1881. Weird!! Suzy LOL

~~♥Suzy♥~

~~♥Suzy♥~ Report 17 Feb 2006 15:25

Leah The two families in 1891 and 1881 are definately the same - even his Mother's birth place is the same. Question is, are they Ian's family. I looked for a possible death record for his wife Rose, but there are too many. Suzy

♥Athena

♥Athena Report 17 Feb 2006 15:30

Hi Suzy Yes, I just tried the same thing. Even searched for the son, but apart from one who was an inmate in some kind of school, not much help there. Zoe - looks like you're having a bit of a psychic day today then LOL Maybe when Ian gets back to us with some more info, we might be able to verify some of this. Leah

~~♥Suzy♥~

~~♥Suzy♥~ Report 17 Feb 2006 15:33

Leah I just found that son (Horace A Young) too. Maybe if his Mother died and then his Father went off with someone else, he ended up in some kind of institution. Can't work out what though. Suzy

♥Athena

♥Athena Report 17 Feb 2006 15:38

Suzy, Think I've cracked this one - the school is actually an orphanage!! Look on that census page for Horace and scroll up to where you have the Master - Ernest Firth and underneath Annie Strickland - it says she is the Matron of Orphanage. So, Rose must have died...but why didn't the father take his son with him I wonder? It might turn out that this isn't Ian's family after all - but even so, it's been interesting all the same! Leah

Zoe

Zoe Report 17 Feb 2006 15:45

lets hope Ian has the marriage certificate from 1903 then because obviously it will say hes a widower re: the psychic day - I think I updated the message above Suzy's post after she put up the Clerk information beneath it. I can't really remember that far back tho - must have been a good 20 minutes ago now

Ian

Ian Report 17 Feb 2006 16:00

Sorry for the delay but I had to run the cat to the vet and when I got back my son had had a bash on the keyboard and mouse and stopped them from working. Back in action now. Ok firstly yes, that is the Henry and Ellen that appears to be my g grandparents. He is listed as a Scavenger which didn't suprise me really as my family on his side including myself do tend to hoard things. :D Scavengers I found out worked with Rakers and I believe were paid by the police service to clear the streets. I'd rather think of him as a very early Scene of Crime Officer than a street sweeper though. I haven't got the marriage certificates only their names in the BMD for that year so again I could be wrong. I am waiting to get as much info as I can and then do the old fashioned writing a letter to the relevent departments etc to get paper copies. The only research I have done so far is online. My grandfathers birth index is: First Quarter 1904 Young, Henry Charles L. - Holborn - 1b 693 (Possible 603) Death index is: First Quarter 1973 Young, Henry Charles L. - Derby - 3a 857 He had two or more older sisters. The only names I have for them are Ruby and Mary. My mum can only remember him speaking of Mary though. The closest Allbrook I've found in the 1891 Census is 'Eliza Helen Allbrook'. She fits the age but I'm not sure if its actually her as it's a bit of a big change from Eliza Helen Allbrook to Ellen Allbrook/Young. I've uploaded a image of the census at http://www.nottingh^amcaesars.c^o.uk/tree/ElizaHelenAllbrook1891.jpg I'm not sure if that link will work so I have added '^' strategically so you will need to remove them to work. I have been told that at some point they lived at 48 Margaret St, Islington. North Clerkenwell. I'm not sure if that was taken from a birth cirtificate or something. While I'm putting details here does anyone know how easy or how to go about getting information for people that worked for Rolls Royce. I have got two members of the family , including my grandfather who worked for them. It would be nice to see what years they did. I think that's all the info I have. I'm amazed at how many of you and how quickly you are helping. Makes me smile at how nice it is for people to do things like this out of kindness and not for some monetary gain. :D

Zoe

Zoe Report 17 Feb 2006 16:06

Scavenger: A person employed by the parish to sweep the streets rag and bone man also a child employed in a spinning mill to collect loose cotton lying about the floor under machinery variation: MUDLARK A sewer cleaner, riverbank scavenger.

♥Athena

♥Athena Report 17 Feb 2006 16:12

Hi Ian Thanks for getting back to us little whizz-kids haha! I would definitely recommend that you order the marriage cert for Henry to Ellen - it is very easy to do online and will cost you £7 - and that will give you a few more details about him (i.e. his father's name and occupation, plus it should say if he was a widower, hopefully). Here's the link for you to order the certs online in case you don't have it already: (remove all the brackets). http://www(.)gro(.)gov(.)uk/gro/content/certificates/ Aww, so there's no mention of a little Horace then? And I don't think we have found any of those sisters - and they weren't living with Henry and Ellen in 1901 - so where were they I wonder? Perhaps they, too, were in some kind of orphanage or workhouse in 1901. Unless Ellen had one daughter after the census in 1901, another in 1902/3, then your grandad in 1904 - phew - sounds tiring! Lots of mysteries with this one. Keeps us all amused though LOL Regards - Leah ps - Zoe - you're spot on there - one of my ancestors was referred to as a 'Sewer Man' then 10 yrs later a 'Scavenger' therafter being called a 'Road Man'.

Kate

Kate Report 17 Feb 2006 16:28

Ian - it is perfectly possible for somebody to be called 'Eliza Helen' or 'Ellen' on the census but 'Eliza Ellen' on the certificates. The name on the census is often what they were called by their family, rather than their 'official' name. And you will often find an H dropped or added. If the son's birth certificate gives his mother's name as Eliza Ellen and the marriage certificate also says Eliza Ellen, then at least they match. There are so many spooky parallels between your grandfather's story and my grandfather's, though! For instance, all we knew about my grandfather's older half-siblings was that one was called Reginald and one - Ruby! I have to say, though, that although she was Ruby on the census her 'official' name on her birth certificate was Marion Margaret Ruby, and on the GRO birth index it says Marion Margaret R., so I hope your Ruby isn't as hard to find as she was! Bear in mind that if the sisters were born 'out of wedlock', they may have been registered under their mother's maiden name (which makes things tricky if they did have a different mother from your grandfather). Luckily for me, 'my' Ruby's mother pretended to be married when she registered her children's births anyway. Kate.

~~♥Suzy♥~

~~♥Suzy♥~ Report 17 Feb 2006 16:34

Ian There is one Ruby Young born in London between 1901 and 1904, and a few Marys too. Have a look on FreeBMD. Suzy PS are any of the later birth records, which I posted earlier, yours?

Kate

Kate Report 17 Feb 2006 16:49

You should get the marriage certificate between Henry and Eliza Ellen and see what it gives for her father's details and that will confirm whether or not she is Eliza Helen (you probably already said you were going to do that?). Also it will say what Henry's previous marital status was, and of course, give HIS father's details, which are what you need to start looking for him on Scotland's People. You will also get the witnesses' names, though I doubt if either of them will be a Young. You never know, though.... Kate.

Ian

Ian Report 17 Feb 2006 17:42

Well I've ordered the marriage certificate so hopefully the details on it will help. I've uploaded the image of the Henry thats listed as warehouseman. This looks like him as he is in the right area and right age. View the image here http://www(.)nottinghamcaesars(.)co(.)uk/tree/HenryYoung1891.jpg No sign of a Ruby or Mary though.

Julie

Julie Report 17 Feb 2006 18:17

Hi Ian I have access to Scotlands people as all my ancestors are Scottish, Not quite sure what you are trying to find out on there if you could let me know I have a few credits and will try to help.

Ian

Ian Report 17 Feb 2006 18:46

Thanks for the offer Julie but I don't think I have enough information to do a search on scotlandspeople yet. I have just done a search for Henry Youngs Mother who is listed in the house with him, Rose and their son Horace A. Young. She appears to be in Northumberland in 1901 working as a 'Ladies Helper' She's 72 years old by then but all of her details match. Place of birth being Durham Whickham etc She is classed as a widow too, anyone have any ideas how we can search the marriage certificate for her without knowing the year? I'm also wondering whats happened in London due to Henry's son being in an orphanage by 1901, his mum being in Northumberland and him marrying someone else. This is getting really confusing. :)

Kate

Kate Report 17 Feb 2006 18:50

Ian - if I were you I would wait till you get Henry and Eliza Ellen's marriage certificate and work from there, as it isn't really very clear whether the warehouseman is your Henry. Or have I missed something? Kate.

Ian

Ian Report 17 Feb 2006 18:58

Kate - I know what your saying, and my brain says the same thing but since starting my tree a couple of weeks ago I'm like a junkie on crack. :) I can't get enough. I'll be robbing peoples houses soon to pay for the searches and pdf's online. *starts shaking* I need a fix.