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superslueths please help ME

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Victor

Victor Report 4 Jul 2005 15:47

Jess The post that Jonathan placed yesterday. John Bleasdale. I don't think that is them as I have found them in 1881, 1891 and 1901. In 1901 and 1891 Ann the wife is not there. They were living at the Newsham Hotel, West Derby Rd, West Derby in 1901. Yes he is a Licences Victualler, but not the correct one. Victor

Robin

Robin Report 5 Jul 2005 10:35

found another stray in north Liverpool. In 1881 there's Louisa M Bessindale, age 21, born Hackthorn Lincs, as a servant with George Hardey in Kirkdale. So I'm looking at the household posted by Sue (THE Suffolk One) on Sunday, from 1871. Three grand-daughters Louisa, Elizabeth, Ada, with their grandad in Salford, no parents around. We've now got all 3 of these grand-daughters matching on name and age (though not birthplace) with the girls who turn up later in north Liverpool. Got to think that means something. Still lots of questions. I think the 1871 birthplace is supposed to be Epworth not Hepworth, it's in Thorne reg dist two miles from Belton, strong Bassindale territory. Now it gets weird. Louisa M from 1881 is in 1861, age 1, born Hackthorn, but living in Belton. (Her mother's from Hackthorn, so I'm thinking she went back home to her mother's to have the baby, as it was her first, as people sometimes did). But she's not called Bassindale, she's Louisa Maria Barr, parents Robert and Caroline. Robert Barr's in Lincoln in 1871, mistranscribed as Ban, still married, new baby Anne, 5 months old, but wife and Louisa (and presumed other kids born 1861-69?) are not at home. But there's a housekeeper, also married, husband missing, presumably for good, if she's living-in, so looks like Robert's wife has also gone for good. In 1881 the housekeeper has become the householder and Robert is the boarder. She's widowed now, but he's still married (so far as he knows). There's another child, age 6, presumably Robert's. So methinks Anne Barr b 1870 is the housekeeper's baby, not the wife's, and maybe Robert and Caroline only had the one child before they broke up. So where's Caroline in 1871? Perhaps she took up with a Bassindale, had a couple of girls, registered under her maiden name or married name or not at all, dumped them on grandad with their half-sister and is now living with another man under yet another name. Too much happens in 10 years, we need that 1866 census

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 10:54

Blimey Robin......Where's Jess???? Your Caroline Barr who has left her husband between 1861 and 1871 could be this young lady who says she is a widow: 1871: Caroline Bassendale abt 1840 Hackthorne, Lancashire, England Visitor Barton upon Irwell Lancashire Henry Bates abt 1796 Lawton, Lancashire, England Father To Wife Barton upon Irwell Lancashire Elizabeth Cooke abt 1827 Gobburn, Lancashire, England Wife Barton upon Irwell Lancashire Hester Cooke abt 1857 Manchester, Lancashire, England Daughter Barton upon Irwell Lancashire Phoebe H Cooke abt 1861 Manchester, Lancashire, England Daughter Barton upon Irwell Lancashire Thomas Cooke ?? abt 1798 Lawton, Lancashire, England Father To Head Of Family Barton upon Irwell Lancashire Thomas Cooke abt 1826 Warrington, Lancashire, England Head Barton upon Irwell Lancashire She has dropped a few years, but hey, ladies do that sometimes!! I wonder whether Mr (hopefully John?) Bassindale is really dead? Sarah

Robin

Robin Report 5 Jul 2005 11:05

Brilliant -- she's exactly who I was looking for and couldn't find. And in the Manchester/Salford area as well. Wouldn't be surprised if Mr Bassindale's dead. Doesn't make her a widow if they weren't married. (I suppose if you're a bigamist there comes a point when you're married and widowed at the same time?) Or is Bassindale her maiden name? Not got far with the grandad either

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 11:18

Oh, hello robin. Yes, I think John Bassindale may be dead. I'm a bit confused about where you think the children may be in 1871?? I saw a Ada Maud Mary Barr and got excited, but the IGI shows her to have different Barr parents. Tried to find a marriage between Robert barr and Caroline to get her maiden name, but no joy on the freesites, as it's probably in one of the gaps!! Where IS JESS (SHOUTING) Sarah

Robin

Robin Report 5 Jul 2005 11:25

I think the kids in 1871 are these that Sue found on Sunday: --------------------------------- Added by Sue (THE Suffolk One) on 03/07/2005 11:13:24 1871 Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County Ada Bassendale abt 1869 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Granddaughter Salford Lancashire Elizabeth Bassendale abt 1863 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Granddaughter Salford Lancashire Louisa Bassendale abt 1860 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Granddaughter Salford Lancashire William Bassendale abt 1802 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Head Salford Lancashire Maggie Cifone abt 1839 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Visitor Salford Lancashire RG10/4026 - Salford folio 74

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 11:33

Robin, Silly me, I forgot to type BassEndale!! Thanks for that. The head, William Bassendale, APPEARS to be recorded as unmarried in 1871??? Trying to find the RIGHT William Bassindale in 1861 (might have son John with him lol). My geography of the area is poor, can you find him? Sarah

Robin

Robin Report 5 Jul 2005 13:02

does look like Unmarried, hard to be sure haven't had any luck with maybe-John or grandad William through the search index, but that doesn't say much. Haven't tried trawling the images. John is supposed to be a publican later, but I think that was often a semi-retirement job, not necessarily a whole-life career really got to go, all yours

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 13:10

I agree about the retirement job! Though I did wonder if she had fallen for a younger man?? This John, below, is living in the next enumeration district to Robert and Caroline Barr in 1861: John Basendale abt 1842 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Servant Belton Lincolnshire His occupation is ''Carter''. Maybe they met in the local bar(r)? lol Sarah

The Bag

The Bag Report 5 Jul 2005 13:25

Cripes...the superslueths have really come out to play! Now, how d we condense all that for dear Joyce... - would someone like to have a go, that was in on the finding cos i'm a bit addled Let me have think and a collect of facts and try and put it on her other thread. many many thanks all Jess.

The Bag

The Bag Report 5 Jul 2005 13:45

Right, from here; 1901 Ada Mary Mellor abt 1870 Manchester, Lancashire, England Wife Walton on the Hill Lancashire Ada May Mellor abt 1897 Walton, Lancashire, England Daughter Walton on the Hill Lancashire Jose Rathbone Mellor abt 1895 Bootle, Lancashire, England Son Walton on the Hill Lancashire Samuel Mellor abt 1870 Bootle, Lancashire, England Head Walton on the Hill Lancashire to here: 1871 Ada Bassendale abt 1869 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Granddaughter Salford Lancashire Elizabeth Bassendale abt 1863 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Granddaughter Salford Lancashire Louisa Bassendale abt 1860 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Granddaughter Salford Lancashire William Bassendale abt 1802 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Head Salford Lancashire Maggie Cifone abt 1839 Hepworth, Lincolnshire, England Visitor Salford Lancashire RG10/4026 - Salford folio 74 Via which RG Refs in 1881 and 1891? cos that is where i am lost

The Bag

The Bag Report 5 Jul 2005 14:01

so are you saying this presumably her parents (abiet without her ) in 1891 Bassindale, John abt 1823 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Head Belton Lincolnshire Bassindale, Louisa abt 1876 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Belton Lincolnshire Bassindale, Mary abt 1845 Epworth, Lincolnshire, England Wife Belton Lincolnshire

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 14:22

Oh errm...we were hoping you would help with that little bit!! I wondered if Mrs Caroline Bassendale (widow in 1871) was with another man in 1881 and her daughters took his name for a while!! However, I can't find Caroline with the right place of birth in 1881 nor a marriage for her (but maybe that's because Robert Barr was still around?) We have Elizabeth in 1891 I think? Mrs something, married in 1889 but with a dau called Ada born some years before... I know it's on the first page of this thread, but can't go there without losing this message lol (wonderful GR!) OH - Forget all that - what about this in 1881? Caroline Barnes abt 1841 Lincoln, England Head 94 Boundary St, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Elizabeth Bassindale abt 1862 Belton, Lincoln, England Daughter 94 Boundary St, Liverpool, Lancashire, England John Kayso abt 1862 United States Lodger 94 Boundary St, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Robt. Montgomery abt 1858 Ireland Lodger 94 Boundary St, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Joshua Trench abt 1858 Penketh, Lancashire, England Lodger 94 Boundary St, Liverpool, Lancashire, England John Underwood abt 1856 Plymouth Lodger 94 Boundary St, Liverpool, Lancashire, England Is the head, Caroline Barnes, the person who was Caroline Bassendale in 1871 and Caroline Barr in 1861?? Where is Belton in Lincs (place of birth for dau Elizabeth)?? The place of birth given in 1871, when the three siblings were living with granddad, was Hepworth, Lincs, but I can't find that on a map and looks like a slightly different spelling on the actual census page..... How are you getting on composing something for Joyce?! Sarah

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 14:28

Sorry Jess, you got in with another question before I finished my two fingered typing....... This is all I think so far (though others may think more lol) 1861 Robert and Caroline Barr on census with one dau, Louisa 1871 Robert Barr's wife has vanished. Dau Louisa Barr is living with William Bassendale and also her younger two sisters, but they are now called Bassendale. The mother, Caroline is recorded as ''widow'' and is Mrs Bassendale now, rather than Barr. 1881 Possibly Mrs Caroline Barr/Bassindale is now calling herself Mrs Barnes (bloody hell lol). She has her dau, Elizabeth with her (the one who is going to have a dau called Ada in a couple of years). I don't know where Louisa and Ada are in 1881 yet. I don't know who John Bassendale is yet, except he is presumably the son of William who was living with his grandchildren in 1871. Am going to get a cup of tea..... Sarah

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 14:37

Having now got that other name BOTTCHER: Ada Bottcher born about 1883 in Liverpool. The Caroline Barnes family I found in 1881 with dau Elizabeth Bassendale, were living in Liverpool!!! Still can't find: Ada in 1881 or 1891 Louisa in 1881 or after (have not looked hard Elizabeth - is she found on all?? As Bottcher in 1891 and 1901???? Am going to look for Caroline Barnes in 1891 now! Sarah

The Bag

The Bag Report 5 Jul 2005 14:56

In a word, i am not! Just trying to digest and have to go to work at 3.00 until 6 .00 so dont want to hurry and get it wrong. This evening is still to come and wil put it together then Please feel free to think out loud on this thread, it all helps!! Jess, in much appreciation

Lynne

Lynne Report 5 Jul 2005 15:04

Well, having followed this thread (NOT!) since it started, I don't know how you have all managed to piece anything together for Joyce. Hope you sort it out between you because it lost me on page one - LOL! Happy hunting. Lynne

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 15:06

Am also going out now til about 7.30pm. So will be thinking about this whilst out. I am having trouble with all the place names as I hardly even know where Lincolnshire is lol Couldn't find Caroline Barr/Bassendale/Barnes after 1881. My aunties used to recite about getting married, ''Change the name, but not the letter, change for worse and not for better''. Suppose Caroline BBB never heard that one?? Sarah

Unknown

Unknown Report 5 Jul 2005 15:20

I agree with Lynne, I tried at the beginning to help and got hopelessly muddled. Sorry but had to give up. Gloria

Victor

Victor Report 5 Jul 2005 18:20

Is this Louisa in 1861????? with mother Ann Unmarried House Keeper, and Brother John aged ?months. John is on a seperate page maybe this is why the names different. 1861 England Census Viewing records 1-5 of 5 matches About this database 1861 England Census index with links to images of the original census returns. More information below « Global Search Results Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island John Bassindale abt 1861 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Servant Belton Lincolnshire Ann Baxendale abt 1833 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Servant Belton Lincolnshire Louisa Baxendale abt 1857 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Servant Belton Lincolnshire Mary Marphett abt 1844 Birmingham, Lincolnshire, England Servant Belton Lincolnshire Robert Rigby abt 1817 Chewbend, Lancashire, England Head Belton Lincolnshire Source information: RG9/3523 Registration district: Thorne Sub-registration district: Epworth ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Folio: 61 Page: 7 Household schedule number: 45 GSU Number: 543146 What do people think??? Victor