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superslueths please help ME

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Victor

Victor Report 5 Jul 2005 18:31

Forget my last post as a possible for Louisa, she is still with mother Ann (still unmarried) in 1871, still a House Keeper to the same person. House Keeper Tee Hee, now with 6 children. 1871 England Census Viewing records 1-8 of 8 matches « Global Search Results Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish or Township County/Island View Image Save This Ann Bassinale abt 1834 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Housekeeper Belton Yorkshire Clara Bassinale abt 1870 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Belton Yorkshire Elizh Bassinale abt 1866 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Belton Yorkshire Herbert Bassinale abt 1869 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Son Belton Yorkshire John Robt Bassinale abt 1861 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Son Belton Yorkshire Louesa Bassinale abt 1857 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Daughter Belton Yorkshire William Bassinale abt 1864 Belton, Lincolnshire, England Son Belton Yorkshire Robt Rigby abt 1813 Wiggin, Lancashire, England Head Belton Yorkshire Never mind. Victor

The Bag

The Bag Report 5 Jul 2005 20:46

What do I think Victor? I think i was a fool to have started this at all! I cant see the wood for the trees at the moment jess

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 5 Jul 2005 21:12

Jess.... I have started a reply several times here (and wasted an hour in the process lol), but it is just too long and complicated and without enough substance to be worth typing (esp with two fingers!). As we don't seem to be getting anywhere sensible with this saga, do you think there is enough evidence that Ada (Mellor) and Elizabeth (Botcher) were sisters? If I were Joyce I would be buying the marriage cert for Elizabeth, to see how much info matched up with Ada's - given that all the other ideas are so tenuous. If Elizabeth ISN'T Ada's sister (or half sister), then all the rest of the stuff Robin and I were talking about is definitely a load of old rubbish lol.... What do you think? Sarah

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 06:59

Jess......JESS......JEEEEESSSS!!! Nudgie....because I've added a bit to my last reply.... What do you think? Sarah

The Bag

The Bag Report 6 Jul 2005 08:43

As there is still no blazingly obvious birth reg for Ada, trying to establish a sister would probably help. I wish Joyce knew Ada's mothers Name. Yes, the marriage cert Bassindale/Bottcher is a good idea BUT John is such a common name for father....... Will suggest she buys that first- see what that says. Draw a line under this for now then? its taking up far too much of everyones time, although the help and suggestions you guys have offered is immeasurable. thanks Jess

Robin

Robin Report 6 Jul 2005 10:16

FreeBMD has a birth for Elizabeth Barr, June 1862. Not too many Barrs round there, so if that's not her, dunno who she would be. There's a good chance Elizabeth's father on the marriage cert will be Robert Barr. That would tie some things up, but doesn't help much with Ada. If this does pan out, the story would be that Caroline took up with John Bassindale say around 1865 in Belton, they moved to Salford, had one child Ada, and John died before the 1871 census. Which doesn't leave a lot to look for. The proof could be Ada signing as informant on her mother's death cert, ideally named as daughter. That would be nearly as good as a birth cert. But death certs aren't indexed by informant, so it's guesswork and pot shots Sarah will like this: Caroline Kitche (I think it's Kitchen really) age 63 born Hackthorne, married, living with her husband in St Mary's Walton-on-the-Hill in 1901. If there's a marriage cert, wonder what her name is on that. Looks like she'd got the message about the B's though. off to work now, over and out

The Bag

The Bag Report 6 Jul 2005 10:31

My only oither thought is this: Following the marriage of Ada Bassindale/Samuel Mellor , a son was born. he is named (and is deff the right child) Joseph RATHBONE Mellor. Not sure where the 'Rathbone' comes from- Joyce says its been passed down, but from where? (was Joseph the first...) Jess, who'd better duck before you thump her because... >>Ada Rathbone abt 1869 Cheshire, England Daughter St Oswald Cheshire Alice Rathbone abt 1843 Gresford, Denbighshire, Wales Wife St Oswald Cheshire Alice Rathbone abt 1867 Cheshire, England Daughter St Oswald Cheshire Elizabeth Rathbone abt 1865 Cheshire, England Daughter St Oswald Cheshire George Rathbone abt 1842 Hatton Heath, Cheshire, England Head St Oswald Cheshire Mary J Rathbone abt 1870 Cheshire, England Daughter St Oswald Cheshire Maybe getting too cryptic....

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 10:49

Flippin' names!!! I can't remember any more lol - which census are those Rathbone's from? Robin: Re Elizabeth Barr, yes, I saw that too. Pity there isn't one for Ada too!! Jess: I was thinking along the lines of if Elizabeth's father was ''John, licenced victualler'' then it could be worth persuing the 1871 three Bassendale sisters living with their granddad, but if Elizabeth's dad is someone else, then that would probably mean the three sisters are a red herring. Almost worth splashing out the seven quid myself, I can't stand this any more lol HAPPY Hunting lol Sarah

The Bag

The Bag Report 6 Jul 2005 11:50

1871, but 1881 she is still at home... in Free BMD Now just looking- thay are mostly B****y Lincs marriages Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1907 BASSINDALE Ellen Manchester 8d 556

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 12:09

Hmmmm...... The only thing I'm sure of is that this family must surely have gone through some name changes/family difficulties/moves over the years, otherwise I'm sure by now we would have found them on the census records, mistranscribed. Have you looked for Elizabeth Bottcher after 1891? I seem to have found her children living with their stepmother (Called Elizabeth Jones, born the same time as ''our'' Elizabeth, but in Doncaster!!) Trouble is, I can't see that our Elizabeth has died, so is the new Elizabeth not new at all? The ''new'' Elizabeth's hubby is missing, so are the Bottcher children MR JONE'S step-children and is Elizabeth ours, but with a completely different place of birth??? What a complete nightmare this is. Sorry if I haven't replied to your last post, Jess, - I know if I go to page 4 of the thread to read it again I will lose this post!! Have to get 4-year-old's lunch now...... back later Sarah

The Bag

The Bag Report 6 Jul 2005 13:13

I think .... 2nd reply on this thread ...I found a Bassinger>Bottcher+ Bottcher >Jones marriages. * No i didn't its a '5 person page' in 1902 (what i would really Jump and down and wave my Knickers in the air for is a marriage of a Bassinger to a Rathbone....) because i dont belive the 1st Born son has the middle name 'Rathbone' just because they liked the name! Jess

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 14:01

Put your knickers back on Jess!! If this is the birth reg of Ada's son: Name: Mellor, Joseph Rathbone Record Type: Births Quarter: June Year: 1894 District: West Derby County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 480 Then surely he MUST be related to these people?: MELLOR, Jose Rathbone 1841 March Marriages Manchester Lancashire Mellor, Jose Rathbone 1849 September Marriages Manchester Lancashire Mellor, Jose Rathbone 1867 March Deaths West Derby Lancashire Esp as he is called José (with the accent too!) on the 1901 census. Here's a pound towards Elizabeth's marriage cert.......£1 Any other donations???? Sarah

The Bag

The Bag Report 6 Jul 2005 14:24

That is very definatley the birth of Ada's son. That was on the first 1901 entry on reply one. His name on the census as Jose, his birth registered as Joseph Rathbone Mellor (Joyce is adamant his name is Jose Rathbone mellor)... lets have those B D & M's for ref in full 1 Broadbent, Sarah Ann 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Clarkson, William 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Dale, Janet 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Daley, Mary 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Dawson, James Edward 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire GREENWOOD, Harriet 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire MELLOR, Jose Rathbone 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Singleton, Hiram 1841 March Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire ------------------------------ 2 Bracewell, Ann 1849 September Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Bradley, John 1849 September Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Dwyer, Harriet 1849 September Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Hilton, Sarah 1849 September Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Hulme, Isaac 1849 September Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire Mellor, Jose Rathbone 1849 September Marriages Manchester (1837-1924) Lancashire 3 Name: Mellor, Jose Rathbone Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 1 < Thats a bummer!! Sc'use me! Quarter: March Year: 1867 District: West Derby County: Lancashire Volume: 8b Page: 347

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 14:59

I was just meaning that the Rathbone may well come from Joseph's side, not Ada's. I'm not at all sure I like this family!! Sarah

moe

moe Report 6 Jul 2005 15:30

Hi, everyone just popped in to see how you are getting on with the bassindales and have now got an headache reading all the alias's she had more names than Elizabeth Taylor. i'm going again this is too advanced for me, thats what i get for thinking I'm a SUPERSLEUTH. I will just go back to reading the boards and wish you all luck MOE! HA! HA! HA! ( the sound of ADA laughing from beyond the grave, because she really wasn't ADA at all she was ELIZABETH)

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 15:33

Oh Moe! ''thats what i get for thinking I'm a SUPERSLEUTH'' That's EXACTLY what i was thinking about myself lol B****y family - I don't think I've come across any as slippery as this - I just know Ada is out there laughing as you said!! Sarah

The Ego

The Ego Report 6 Jul 2005 15:38

I hope this snippet may help you somewhere. The name RATHBONE in Liverpool is huge.It has connections to major Victorian philanthropists.There are roads,schools,colleges etc named after them. The use of the name may well have been used temporarily as a middle name as a result of snobbery or wanting people to see someone as associated with the family. Pam H.

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 15:43

Thanks for that, Pam...... Not quite the sort of help we want!!!!!! (it is really, but makes our searching for the name less worthwhile lol) Sarah

Victor

Victor Report 6 Jul 2005 16:19

Hi All Just looked at my emails and it appears that I was struggling with this family from 29/03/2005 to 02/05/2005 and came up with the same sort of information on Ada and Jose along with the Mellors. This info was passed to Joyce then and it too didn't seem to lead anywhere. During this time Joyce was looking at the possibility that John Bassendale came from Lincoln. She knew he was a licenced victualler 19/04/2005 as she passed it to me via email. I have tried not to get too involved in this thread, apart from the odd blunder or two, Just to see if people came to the same conclusions as I did at the time. I was convinced that the family originated in Lincolnshire and moved north at some period (this was what I could not find). I think there is a fear after a whilt that you try to force things to fit even if the don't so I gave up. For some reason they don't appear to be on any census. Victor

Merry Monty

Merry Monty Report 6 Jul 2005 16:28

Blimey Victor - it's a marathon then! Well, my two-pennyworth is that Joyce must get the marriage cert for Elizabeth Bassindale to Frederick Bottcher Marriages Sep 1890 Bassindale Elizabeth W. Derby 8b 801 Bottcher Frederick West Derby 8b 801 and see if she has the same dad as Ada. If she does, then we could be one step nearer to the three Bassendale sisters who appear on the 1871 census with their grandfather, William Bassendale in Salford. Best Wishes One and All! Sarah