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birth certificate( new info 3-4-14)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Mort Report 21 Mar 2010 20:58

I think i have a possible for Thomas in the 1901 census if he is brother listed as lodger in 1911. Mother is ann approx 1850 Wales, can't make out place in Wales.

Name: Thomas Jones
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Oldham, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Oldham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:


Condition as to marriage:


Employment status: View image

Registration district: Oldham
Sub-registration district: Oldham Below Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 183
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Jones 51
Thomas Jones 14

I think the 1911 census is the correct one May could have been her nick name, my gt gran is down as Ellen though her name was Frances Ellen.
The children could be the correct children, looking at it there are 3 of the children you have listed, the other children may have grown up and moved on, looking at your grandad to Nellie, she would have been 16 and would probably have been working when he was born in 1915, you also memtioned a Leonard that may not been on the 1911 Census as he may have been at work.

Also with a Death cert, the information given is given by the informant and may not be correct.
My nan registered her father-in-law as she was present at his death, she listed him as Ernest Frederick, but he was really Ernest Conrad.

I know you are working so hard to get the bottom of thing, please keep up your brilliant work, but i have to agree with an earlier post, try your grand-dad's brith Certficate it may not give you any more information, but you will know 100% that you are going in the right dirrection.

Also with the birth's my nan is registered as mmn Hansen but her siblings as Reinholdt as her mother was married twice and didn't know what she was supposed to use, Reinholdt as her previous married name or her mn Hansen.
Things can be tricky, and i hope you don't pull out too much of your hair, and i wish you all the best with your searching


jansmith Report 22 Mar 2010 13:38

please get his birth cert then to confirm names
with birth index from official site above at the moment cost £7 but is going up in price in April i believe!


martynsue Report 22 Mar 2010 14:42

i am waiting for it to come while i wait i am hoping something will happen by miacle


lancashireAnn Report 22 Mar 2010 15:00

sorry Martyn but miracles seem in short supply today. I cannot find Normans baptism at St Mary's RC in 1915 and marriage records are few and far between here. Maybe the birth cetificate will help. Sometimes the mmn recorded on the birth is not the name she was married under if it was her 2nd marriage. I keep wondering about this one

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1913
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
JONES John E STRACHAN Mary E Oldham Register Office or Registrar Attended


martynsue Report 22 Mar 2010 15:04

thanks ever so much for looking i will get my answers at some time i will not give up they have to be somewhere curiosity will not let me stop


jansmith Report 22 Mar 2010 16:32

looks like a few of us will be waiting to see what is on the birth cert!!
did you find any more info about Sidney?


Jooleh Report 22 Mar 2010 19:46

Hi Martyn

Been following your thread with interest & a couple of questions spring to mind:

1) What makes you so sure that all the children were born in Oldham?

2) What made you think that John E Jones was born in Dolgelly?

Just wondering because you might be narrowing your search possibilities down unless you have very good reason to believe those two things.



martynsue Report 25 Mar 2010 14:24

hello everyone who has been helping i got birth cert today what a suprise details on this are nothing like the death cert norman was born 15th sept 1915 no 5 aug as stated on death cert born at 21 taylor st oldham mothers maiden name was cropper but she is down as elizabeth not mary as on death cert his dad was john edward jones sorry if i mislead you all before i would be very grateful if anyone could find out any details on the family regards martyn


Joan Report 25 Mar 2010 15:26

Hi Martyn
Am I right to be confused about this or is the answer staring at us ?
I found the May 1899 and Norman 1915 both with mmn Cropper.
Someone found the marriage of John E Jones to Elizabeth Cropper in 1898.
So.......they should be around in 1911.....well at least John and Elizabeth.
Who was the informant on the DC ?
Do any addresses match up with what you already know ?


martynsue Report 25 Mar 2010 15:31

on elizabeths or marys the one i have says mary elizabeth it was her son leonard was informant and cert was issued to norman


jansmith Report 25 Mar 2010 15:37

so could be the marriage i posted on 20th march?


martynsue Report 25 Mar 2010 15:39

yes jan it could if we can tie children into it


jansmith Report 25 Mar 2010 15:42

there seems to be only 1 Elizabeth 1876+/- 1 yr /John Oldham in 1911

I am still wondering about the Mary Elizabeth Mangham.(my husbands gran died when his mum was only 6mths old so she only ever knew her step mum as mum)


martynsue Report 25 Mar 2010 15:47

do you think that could be them what about the older children nellie arthur rose & leonard are they mentioned


jansmith Report 25 Mar 2010 15:52

no not that 1911 as wife was May ,but without credit i don't know who was in the Elizabeth /John household or where they were born


martynsue Report 25 Mar 2010 15:56

i have to go sort out my brother so will not be able to reply for a couple of hours but should anyone find anything out iwill reply as soon as i can thanks


Joan Report 25 Mar 2010 17:22

The 1911 census with Elizabeth Jones b 1876 with a John Jones IS NOT THE CORRECT ONE.
This one is wife to Harry Jones with a son John


Joan Report 25 Mar 2010 17:25

The other Elizabeth born 1879 is wife of Albert Jones with a son John Thomas.
Back to the drawing board !


martynsue Report 25 Mar 2010 18:00

this family drives me mad once i get john &elizabeth sorted i hope the next ones back are not as troublesome


lancashireAnn Report 25 Mar 2010 21:50

In the LRO there were other baptisms that I looked at but had not sorted my scribble out until now. Even they were confusing.
These were at Our Lady of Mount Carmel, Oldham. There was a handwritten list of names & dates which helped - I thought - until I looked.

Ellen 27-2-1899 d of Michael & Mary Jane

Arthur - did not find in register - may have missed it 16-6-1899 on list

JOHN EDWARD (Jack???) b Sept 1902 baptised 1904 s of John Edward & Mary nee MANGHAN

Rose Ann 19-12-1909 (parents details not clear) but there was rather a lot written in the name margin which we could not read. The archivist is going to look up the original to see if she can read it and let me have any translation next time I go (poss next Thurs). Miracles do happen - it may shed a lot of light or just confuse things further

there were more Jones - surprisingly not v many - but I think they could be discounted.

I could find no trace of Norman at that church or St Mary's. The index for Our Lady only went up to 1914 but searched through the register for 1915. The regs for St Mary's go up to 1919.

I wonder if the children were baptised quite a long time after birth - compare John Edward