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And all the other details please from the cert - remember I am coming into this 'new'??
Dea x

Sorry !!

Marriage at Middlesbrough Register Office April 6th 1918

John Hogan 29 Bachelor Coal miner 32 West St Middlesbrough
Father Daniel Hogan Coal miner

Gertrude Sowden 24 Widow 49 Edith St Midlesbrough
Father John Shea(Deceased) Ironworker.

thanks

HOUSEHOLD HOGAN JOHN M 1890 21 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

maybe Daniel

HOUSEHOLD HOGAN DANIEL M 1849 62 Bradford Yorkshire West Riding

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HOUSEHOLD MCCARTHY CATHERINE F 1900 11 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

HOUSEHOLD MCCARTHY THOMAS M 1898 13 Dewsbury Yorkshire West Riding

HOUSEHOLD MCCARTHY THOMAS M 1909 2 Middlesbrough Yorkshire North Riding

this is from 1911 census

i don't know if this is relevent ,but

Marriages Dec 1915 (>99%)
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Hogan Mary K McCarthy Swansea 11a 2418
McCarthy James Hogan Swansea 11a 2418

The district Swansea spans the boundaries of the counties of Glamorgan and West Glamorgan



possible birth

Births Sep 1894 (>99%)
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Hogan Mary Merthyr T. 11a 620


there is also a birth for John Hogan same place

Births Dec 1890 (>99%)
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Hogan John Merthyr T. 11a 542

The district Merthyr T. is an alternative name for Merthyr Tydfil and it spans the boundaries of the counties of Breconshire, Glamorgan and Mid Glamorgan

and found this marriage could be there parents

Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)
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Cannings George Merthyr T 11a 708
HOGAN Daniel Merthyr T. 11a 708
McCarthy Alice Merthyr Tydfil 11a 708
Watson Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 708

could this be alice's death,maybe not


Deaths Mar 1917
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McCarthy Alice 60 Middlesbro 9d 366


The district Middlesbro is an alternative name for Middlesbrough and it is in the county of North Riding of Yorkshire;

1901 census


Daniel Hogan 29 Glam Pontlottyn Glamorganshire Gelligaer Coal Miner Hewer

Well done Sablon!!

Looks like you may be on to something there - I DO find that it is often useful to 'follow' the witnesses !!

Have baby grandson here at the moment but will 'check back again' as soon as I can.

Dea x

I am also following a possible Richardson/Shea connection:

Marriages Mar 1906 (>99%)
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MARTIN Ethel Hannah Middlesbro' 9d 786
MAXWELL John Ernest Middlesbro' 9d 786
Richardson John Middlesbro' 9d 786
Shea Ellen Middlesbro' 9d 786

.....................

And there is a John Hogan on 1911 in Middlesbrough lodging with Joseph + Agnes Williams - Agnes would probably be his sister, though I am
not convinced he is 'Susan's John yet??

Marriages Dec 1907 (>99%)
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ALLITT Jane Middlesbro' 9d 1336
FULLER Robert Middlesbro' 9d 1336
HOGAN Agnes Middlesbro' 9d 1336
WILLIAMS Joseph Gill Middlesbro' 9d 1336

Dea x

there are 2 possible births in glamorgan for Ellen

Births Jun 1886 (>99%)
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SHEA Ellen Swansea 11a 801

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Births Dec 1889 (>99%)
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Shea Ellen Pontypridd 11a 451



and gertrude

Births Dec 1894 (>99%)
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Shea Gertrude Middlesbro' 9d 595

they could of moved to middlesbro before gertrude was born



just checked for ellen in middlesbro births Nothing,so it must be her in glamorgan

marriage for ellens parents and Gertrudes in glamorgan this is looking even more possible as gertrudes father is John Shea. notice on marriage elizabeth williams ???? I wonder if elizabeth williams is to do with Joseph williams and is johns uncle or perhaps they are johns cousins

Marriages Sep 1886 (>99%)
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CARPENTER Alice Pontypridd 11a 554
LITTLE Charles Pontypridd 11a 554
SHEA John Pontypridd 11a 554
Williams Elizabeth Pontypridd 11a 554

the marriage would go with the pontypridd birth


found this marriage also James Hogan maybe to a williams Now James could be Daniel Hogans Brother Daniel's marriage is in the same place,on page 5
i will bring it forward.
Ellen Williams could be Elizabeth Williams sister and elizabeth named her daughter after her,

Marriages Dec 1880 (>99%)
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Davies Walter Merthyr T. 11a 633
Evans Ann Merthyr T. 11a 633
Hogan James Merthyr Tydfil 11a 633
Williams Ellen Merthyr T 11a 633


Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cannings George Merthyr T 11a 708
HOGAN Daniel Merthyr T. 11a 708
McCarthy Alice Merthyr Tydfil 11a 708
Watson Ellen Merthyr T. 11a 708


what is it with this family,,also Christopher Hogan maybe married to a williams same place

Marriages Dec 1887 (>99%)
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Beddoe Owen Merthyr T. 11a 846
DAVIES Hannah Jane Merthyr T. 11a 846
Hogan Christopher Merthyr T. 11a 846
WILLIAMS Elizabeth Merthyr T. 11a 846

Oh Sablon and Dea i don't know what to say I'm speechless i know i keep saying it but how do you do it? I'm only on leads from way back and you are both hurtling along.!! I can't believe that there may be a welsh connection but lots of things are jumping out, unless thats just my wishful thinking !! I am trying to keep up with you , honest !


Sue

1891 census

John Shea abt 1866 Wales , Yorkshire

Hi Sue,

Don't get too 'carried away' just yet - REMEMBER !! - all these are only 'possibles' !!!! - None of them have been 'proved' to be connected!

We just need to find that little bit of real proof which will connect up the right ones.

Grandson just gone home so I will see if I can find anything.

Dea x

there are loads of Joseph williams born in Merthyr Tydfil without a marriage cert/would be difficult to pin him down
but his name is Joseph Gill williams and i found this marriage for Gill / williams,might be wrong so
mary williams could be related,who knows



Marriages Jun 1888 (>99%)
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Davies Richard Pontypridd 11a 611
GILL Walter Pontypridd 11a 611
PARSONS Ellen Pontypridd 11a 611
WILLIAMS Mary Ann Pontypridd 11a 611

and the opposite ,mary gill

Marriages Dec 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brereton George Swansea 11a 1428
Davies Margaret Swansea 11a 1428
Gill Mary Ann Swansea 11a 1428
WILLIAMS William George Swansea 11a 1428

Susan
found a possible brother to daniel hogan married in same place ,
Have you anything else that you know of to help pin this down
what were your leeds?
do you have any info on gertrude?

I believe I found him on a census and this would be his parent's marriage:

Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cox Timothy Stourbridge 6c 297
***Gill Sarah Stourbridge 6c 297
Hodgets Emma Stourbridge 6c 297
HODGETTS Emma Stourbridge 6c 297
***Williams John Stourbridge 6c 297

I don't think this one is yet on the Welsh side.

I think we are both becoming 'obsessed here - I am going to take a further look 'from the beginning' as I fear we are finding too many possibles here?

We need just one 'real' connection.

Dea x

hi Dea
your right.but i do love a challenge,don't you?

i don't know if this is gertrudes first husband not much info as gertrude was widowed young between 1914-1918
Name: SOWDEN, JAMES
Initials: J
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Lance Corporal
Regiment/Service: Duke of Wellington's (West Riding Regiment)
Unit Text: 2nd Bn.
Age: 33
Date of Death: 08/04/1915
Service No: 11404
Additional information: Son of William and Mary Sowden.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 20.
Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL


bought the marriage forward

Marriages Jun 1914 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Shea Gertrude M A Sowden Middlesbro 9d 1300
Sowden James S Shea Middlesbro 9d 1300

Dea,on page 5 i have put a possible death for Alice McCarthy
would she have gone under her maiden name on reg of deaths ?

I think this is unlikely to be her death Sablon.

Dea x