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I need help with a family mystery – (I am a first time poster…and a novice on searching..)

1. Susan Motherwell (b1841) married Samuel Watson (born in 1831) in 1857 - Parish Church in the Parish of All Saints, Kildrum, County Donegal (I am assuming Church of Ireland but who knows....certainly will not have been RC) - this comes from LDS.
2. She would have been 16 and he, 26. They moved to Greenock around 1860.
3. Samuel was a farm labourer and his father was also called Samuel a spade finisher, his mother was Catherine (McLaughlin).
4. This is the mystery – her parents were called James and Susan – they died and the family myth is that they (Susan and her sister) were taken in by two uncles (presumably called Motherwell). Also – a family story about a will in the 1920s and a lawyer called Balfour from Londonderry putting a notice in the ‘Sketch’ seeking relatives.
5. One of the sisters went to America.

The help is - I want to find evidence of the other sister but i am unable to trace any births involving James and Susan Motherwell (that will be her married name).

PS - There is some potential information in that one of Susan Motherwell’s daughters (Catherine Watson – who became McFadyen then May – b1861’ish) had a daughter called Edith May [b1904] (married Alexander Mair) – Born 1904 in Annan). She in turn had a son called Stuart Mair (b1935 Birkenhead) – they in turn had a daughter called Deborah Mair (now Williamson) in Sutton Surrey 1961 (gleaned this from GR) – have tried messaging her but no response. The point of all of this is that are reputed to have a family bible with a history in it (again a family tale passed down over the last 50/60 years).

If anybody could help it would be appreciated.

Ivanhoe
I cannot ry to help at the moment as we have a house full of family visitors. However I wondered if you have started to develop a tree with the info you have posted. If so have you tried looking at the Hot Matches.? You may find something on there.

My father also came from southern ireland , and research can be very difficult as so many records were destroyed in the famous fire.

09.18 hrs Spain :-)

Christopher....There were 3/4 Motherwell families in the area where you are looking...Wm. John, Caldwell. and I have just found mention of a James...who maybe is your connection...he lived in the Townland of Leitrim but applied to Reg .Freehold land 1829.. for Cleeve. (as did the others mentioned though Caldwell Reg.for Monglas)
These are all in the All Saints area.
I can not so far find a marriage for Susan for the date you mention...plenty for Caldwell Motherwell and Margaret Wilson's family
Yes they were Pres.
I will see what else I can locate later .....
The story about the "Will" search is probably correct as there are a number of Motherwell (Co Donegal) wills listed on the PRONI site...this site is free to search...

There marriage is on http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/ 1857 All Saints C.I.

Thanks Maura...I have some of their records but must have missed it somewhere.....

This family takes some digging up so they do..!!

1. Have found no other info relating to James and Susan other than what is in my earlier post re James.

2. Susan Motherwell and Samuel Watson also had these children

1. ELIZABETH WATSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 DEC 1866 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

2. MARTHA WATSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 04 NOV 1872 Middle-East-West Parishes, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

3. ROBERT WATSON - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 14 NOV 1869 Middle Or New Parish, Greenock, Renfrew, Scotland

Plus another Martha b 1880...the earlier one may have died.

I have located Margaret Motherwell b 1835 daughter of James ...she married a Wm Park son of John Park in Killea 1851.

Also the marriage of a Sarah Motherwell daughter of James to a Wm Robison/Robinson son of Wm.at Taughboyne 1853.

You dont mention the name of the "other sister"...was it one of the above...?

hi Guys

Thanks for your great efforts - it is massivley appreciated. I have developed the tree of her Children quite well - what seems to be missing are birth records of the of the Children who were born in Irelland (Donegal) pre them moving to Greenock - which i suspect was 1861/2/3. i have managed to list them throuygh both Scottish death recrods and also fam,ily folklore (and grave records interstingly).

Prior to posting this I came across a guy in Oz who was searching Donegal stuff - he provided some help and supports some of your findings.

I am also trying to find people on GR who have a link in the hope that they may have also looked at this and/or have information - hence my reference to Edith May and her off spring (one of which i think is alive and who i have tried to contact via GR)

Ultimatley - the key record will be the Birth record of Susan motherwell....

BTW - sisters name is unknown - it is just family folklore

Christopher...I have been unable to find any Baptism Records in the whole of the Island of Ireland for any of three Motherwell girls listed above...Mgt/Sarah/Susan which makes me wonder if they were perhaps born in Scotland...the surname/variations are plenty.
Susan Motherwell Watsons' Death Cert should have her parents names on it...
Other than the three children I have listed for Sam and Susan who else was there...?
Was there any connection between James Motherwell and Catherine Connell (Greenock)..?

Hi Erin

Thanks for your considerable efforts - this may be a tough if not impossible one

Susan Motherwell Watson DC has her parents as James (farmer) and susan (no maiden name).- she died in Greenock (1919)

The premise of her coming from Donegal/Kildrum is family folklore and also the wedding certifcate. that said i am realising the obvious - that is there is no proof she was born there. An irish birth was that of samuel - 1857 ish - who died in 1875 (Greenock) - i have seen his DC. Is there any trace of his birth in Donegal I am now wondering. .

The three Greenock Births that you mention are later Children - the earlier ones (are from family folkore) from Donegal (Samuel - 1857-1875) catherine (1861 - ended up in England - her offspring are the ones with the family bible that i am trying to trace (Mair's).

The interesting thing for me is that no birth records can be found for the three mariages with James Motherwell as father - which suggest that (1) they were born out of ireland, (2) the records are not there or (3) they were not recorded. Clearly the Marriage is recorded for Susan and Samuel (with James as the father) and is supported by her DC with James as Father.

I am starting to think that when they came to Greenock they may have spun a tale and kept to it.... probably not but who knows

all very frustrating

Frustrating ...well yes...but as far I can tell the your Motherwell's and variation on transcription were from Donegal and there is a James listed for the area 1829..so assuming they were all related....James John Caldwell and William (wont go back as far as Tursty at the moment) ....
John, Caldwell and Wm stayed in the area Caldwell became prosperous..!!
James had 3 daughters attributed to him according to their respective marriages
Margaret 1851 to Wm Park.
Sarah 1853 to Wm Robinson
I have looked at both of these families and some of their respective children ...none named Susan..that I can find ...which I find rather odd given most families followed the trad.naming pattern.

There is something I cant quite figure out and I dont even know if it was any relativity to your tree but "Caldwell" was Caldwell "Alexander" Motherwell...now was that a second surname or a second Christian name...(only finding his parents would show that.)...The point is I have found a Susanna Alexander married to a William Motherwell in Co Kildare...
If James was deceased when Susan married Sam.then it should have on the Cert.deceased..there would also need to be a letter of permission by her guardian noted in the Church Register....may be worth trying to get a copy to see who her guardian was...

ta erin

Which church do you think it was? the other point of ongoing frustration for me and my Mum (and we are both rank beginners) is that the proof of the marriage is from the LDS as well as a pice of paper that my mum has seen which is a 'copy' of the original. Long long story - this was gleaned forty years ago - and i think it is merely a typed up sheet with the information from the original (I will find out shortly as i have written to a 93 year old relative who has the piece of paper) - the pint of this ramble is that it talks about the parish church in all saints parish - wonder where this is - but fits with the Motherwell grouping in three parishes

what makes you think that one of them did well

also - what is Tursty?

Evening Christopher....Forget "Tursty"...an error on my part....had my mind on other things at the time..!!

If you look back at Mauras reponse on the thread you will see she gives you details of where you can view the marriage of Samuel Watson and Susan Motherwell....it is a site where you need to Reg and you can download the docs.(pay per view.....) as Maura states they were Church of Ireland.
Both Caldwell Motherwell and John Motherwell were Landowners and if you check out the web site I gave you you can see the Wills ....David Caldwell Motherwell was the son of Caldwell Motherwell....
The Motherwells were also related to the Risks. ..(thats another line..)....
I havent been able to find any Motherwell Births predating...Caldwell Motherwell (1800)
The Motherwells were more than likely Scottish Undertakers (not funeral directors !!) as they were granted lands back into the late 1600's and early 1700's and there were Wills listed (Not avaliable now) for 1700's

This is a rather interesting piece of info...(assuming it is the correct "Watson")

John Motherwell Gartsuey in the Parish of All Saints leased to Samuel Watson of Ballybigley for 1 life or 21 years land at 44sts. per annum ( Sterling Shillings)...April 1859

I realise the above is not really helping find the parents of Susan but it is necessary to dig deep to maybe find a key...

Have also found land deed and titles for John ...1848..St Johnstown
James...1767 Leitrim
There was also a James on the Abercorn Estate in the Laggan Valley...Tonagh.
He bought his land (1793) from a Wm Colhoun who obtained it from a George Carey (in payment of a debt)

EDIT...The Samuel Watson... Ballybigley .was not husband of Cath Mclaughlan so could not have been father of Sam.

All very interesting stuff...

Thanks Erin

Thanks again for your efforts.

I had seen the Lease thing before (through Googling) and it is too much of a coincidence. If you look at Ballbigley/Gartsuey [Garshooey]/Kildrum - they are are all very very very close. Additionally - on Griffiths - there is a Susan Motherwell who owns a property nearby (this is all 1857 at the time of the wedding.

They had several Children - in this order i think.

Ireland

Catherine - 1858/9
Samuel - die as a teen 1858/9 or 7??
Maybe another one

Greenock

Martha
Elizabeth
Robert - went to cananda??
Marth 1880 (the other one died in 1879)
Samuel - the one born in Ireland died)

If you go back up the thread - Catherine (who i think may have been the oldest - married a man called Macfadyen (1880) - he died 1886 - she then marries Mr May (1887) - she has more kids (including Edith May 1904 Annan). She marries Mr Mair - and they have a son in Birkenhead (1935) - who in turn has amongst other things a daughter called Deborah Mair (who is now Williamson). the point of this is that i think they have conducted research and have the 'family bible'. But where they are - i haven't a clue.

The point of all this - is that between their wedding adn leaving for Greenock (3-4 years - they had kids so there must be some record?

Afternoon Christopher...

Well I dont know where you found a Susan Motherwell listed on GV.....I cannot locate her...
I have Margaret Motherwell who never married died aged 60 and left her bits and pieces to James "Caldwell" Risk (her nephew) now here's another complication...
James Caldwell Risk(above) was the son of James Risk and married a Sarah MOTHERWELL Donaghy daughter of David...dont you just love it..!! (Taughboyne 1852)

I am after thinking that the "Caldwell" is a second surname......

Apols - i meant that i always new about Edith May (and who here mother was) - and she is on GR.

Interestingly i have just discovered another g Granddaughter of Susan Motherwell on GR (one of Catherine Watson daughters grandchildren. She doesn't know that much

Hello all,
I am researching this family as well but my maiden name is Motheral. There are some Motherwells mixed in with (what I believe is my group line) in Burt, Ireland. This family was from Scotland. Many records there but they are all over the board in terms of surname spelling. I have been to some of these places myself. Majority of them seem to center around the Kilsyth area. Christopher, I tried emailing you yesterday. Maybe we can work together on this thing!

Michelle
in Texas ;-)

Michelle

have sent you a message

cheers

Hi

I have discovered that a margaret motherwell (with father james) married william park. can't find any digital footprint in Uk after that - so suspect may have left country.

Have a census from family search in new york in 1870 which list william and margaret park and some other Parks.

Looking for an help to see if anybody can track them in later census

Linked....................

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1333254

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1322595

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1274012