Find Ancestors

Cheers! for the input Potty!...all thoughts and info welcome.

Yes I think we are thinking the Wilsons of Liverpool are the most likely family. Those you posted earlier.
Shame marrige certs don't contain mothers name also.
Mind you I am getting a little confused.

John was aboard HMS Active at time of marrige in 1892.
And In 1901..he is aboard HMS Wye.

We know his fathers name is William...but as William is also in the Navy.
I am have been unable to locate Johns POB...or Williams.

So the Wilsons you posted are the ones I should concentrate on?
Its finding gro record number so I can order certs ....

Just to confuse things even further - there are two William Wilsons, b Liverpool, shipwrights on the 1861 - the one boarding in Portsea and this one:
1861 England Census
about William Wilson
Name: William Wilson
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1833
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Charlotte
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 25
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 109
Household Members: Name Age
William Wilson 60
Charlotte Wilson 54
William Wilson 28 - single
Robt McCartney 23
Charlotte McCartney 20
Robert McCartney 10 Mo
Eliza Mary Buchanan 68

Oooooooook...lol.....

Never was gonna be that easy was it. :-)

They look almost like the same person.
See.... this is what has caused me so much trouble...being in the Navy..really doesn't help track folks down.

The one with mother Charlotte is still with that family in 1871 (unmarried). By 1881 he is married (and become a little younger!) to Mary and Charlotte is a widow with them. Same in 1891. Oh, and on one of these he is William James Wilson. And there is no son John.

So not our William.

Looking at the image for the William with mother Charlotte in 1871, I thought it looked as if he was married - but as he is still with mum in 1881 and no John, "our" William must be the one in Portsea in 1861 - but where are Esther and John!! The only John with a mother Esther and no father present is a John McMenis(? image is not clear); Esther is married but born Ireland which does not tie up with later census.

Boogie, who were the witnesses to John and Emma's marriage? Are there any clues there?

Names on cert are

Edith Brady & Frank Wallace Groves

Don't appear to be related to John & Emma.

Well, there are plenty of John Wilsons born around the right time in both Liverpool and West Derby. If we run with the one born to William and Esther, his siblings could also be Liverpool or West Derby, apart from Frances who is definitely West Derby. If we then are guided by the NA record that Potty found, there is a birth in West Derby, Jun 1859, ref 8b/283. Free bmd shows two references but the second is an alternative guess because the original isn't clear. But it looks like 283 to me.

But I'd like to find this John in 1861 with mother Esther. But I can't.

I think this could be the 1861 Portsea William - he and his father are shipwrights - :

1851 England Census
about William Wilson
Name: William Wilson
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Peter
Mother's Name: Frances
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Toxteth Park
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 7 Head St

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 1t
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 67
Household Members: Name Age
Peter Wilson 69 b Liverpool
Frances Wilson 66 b Cheshire, Liscard?
William Wilson 19
John Williams 18 - visitor, b L'pool, plaster

Wilson is like Smith an Jones..to many keep reusing the same names over and over again...which means many folks with the same name..which sucks.

Can't aford to buy to many certs....money is so tight....I really need to be sure we have the write ones before I send for certs..

But need to find some gro numbers first.!

The naval history of these men.maybe interesting once found..but its a bugger for both to be in navy..really doesn't help tracking them down.

Thing is...other related folks to me are also in the Navy...gggrrrrr!!
Will this navy lark ever end?.

Mind you my father did his service in the Army...lol..I believe in tanks in Germany....I recall him showing me photo's of him in uniform...but I do not have any photos of my father other than the one from his wallet..
Or my mother come to think of things....or one of my sisters!

I think the only thing you can do is to order the cert Madmeg found and give William as the father's name for a checking point. That way, if that is wrong they will not send the cert and will refund part of the charge.

I think this marriage has already been posted but this confirms that a William Wilson married an Esther Moore - from Lancs bmd:
1853:
WILSON William MOORE Esther Liverpool, St. Philip Liverpool

I understand Boogie, it is sensible to get as close as possible before spending money. Wilsons and the Navy are no different from other families - many others moved around to strange places. My own gg grandparents popped up and had children all over the place for no apparent reason until I twigged that he was a railway blacksmith and all the places were railyards.

I think we are pretty sure we are looking for John born about 1860 in Liverpool/West Derby, father William, a Shipwright. We cannot be certain that his mother is Esther as we can't find her with him in 1861.

I think it is worth contacting the Liverpool Register Office and asking if they have a birth of a John, father William, a Shipwright 1858-1862. They won't tell you who the mother is, but if they find those details you can buy the certificate.

The Register Office, The Cotton Exchange, Old Hall Street, Liverpool, L3 9UF.
Tel: 0151 233 3004. Fax: 0151 233 4944.
E-mail: [email protected]

The only marriage I can find of a William Wilson to an Esther is that to Esther Moore in 1853. Lancashire bmd has this one, Liverpool St Philip Church, ref 2123LP/10/407. You could ask them if that William is a shipwright, and again get the certificate.

If he is not a shipwright and you don't think it is the right one, you don't pay anything.

Many thanks for your help Madmeg....it is most appreciated.
And others who have helped.
At least I have something more correct than what I had before to go on.
Just a case of doing the paper work etc and seeing if it is correct..

Hope so...don't want to have to start again with this one..lol

Liverpool hey?..well well....

Am also trying to confrim that one of my ancestor on my mothers side did infact emigrate to the US around 1644.

Shhheeeshh..never ending

Paul
xx

That's okay. Let us know what happens.

Margaret

Hi Madmeg,

Update:

Have just phoned the Orphanage....but the gent who deals with Genealogy side of things was out...I hope to get a return call.

I have also sent an email just incase.

I have also found a short documentry about the place on Youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUBAl0NrepQ

Paul

That's good, hope they can help.

Well, I have just watched the U-tube clip. The lady Pamela's father was probably about the same age as yours. Sounds like they were groomed for the Merchant Navy rather than the Royal Navy.

I hope you find some records, cos this is a fabulous piece of history for you to add to your collection.

No reply from school...so phoned again yesterday...but as before no reply as yet. : -(

Update!.

Sometime ago one of Potty's posts mentions a "George Walkington"

George married my grt grt grandfathers sister Alice Wilson.
Their grandaughter was one Alice Fleet.

Alice Fleet turns out to be the mother of Frederick Fleet....the lookout aboard RMS Titanic who spotted the Iceberg!.

He survived the sinking and manned lifeboat No.6.

Soooo!.....Fred had been put out for adoption by his mother who then emigrated to the US and married her boyfriend.
They had a daughter who married 3 times and had at least 2 children.

One of the marriages gave me a link to the name Pattillo.

NOW!...for the past 10 years i have been running a website dediacted to a US pilot from ww2 who flew with a the 352nd Fighter Group 8th Airforce.
I have had an interest in this pilot since i was 12 years old...I am now 42.

The most amazing thing is....there were twin brothers who also flew with the 352nd FG.. Their names..Bill & Buck "PATTILLO"

And with some time and effort I have discovered the Pattillo link I have via Alice Fleet is the very same family that Buck & Bill came from.

I have contacted Buck (as I have friends with the 352nd Association).
And he gave me his family back ground and both his and the Pattillo family i have a link to came from the same family here in Scotland where i now live.....They came from a village named Kettins...which is about 25 miles from me.

Its an AMAZING! find....To discover i am related to pilots who flew with the man I have dediacted a website to for 10 years and have been interested in since i was 12....CRAZY!

I have now put Bill & Buck into my tree...You can find video clips of Bill & Buck on Youtube.
Just do a search for "the Pattillo brothers".

I family link i am very proud to have.
Salute



Cheers to all those who helped me on this message MANY THANKS!!!

:)