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A Sad Little Tale - Part 2 (Closed)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


HeadStone Report 16 Aug 2007 22:50

Hi all,
Just a reminder for new visitors

Updated: Feb 2009
For the conclusion of the tale please visit:

Liz from Lancs

Liz from Lancs Report 16 Aug 2007 22:59

Thanks's been interesting and educational. Thanks for sharing it. Liz


Mumsy Report 16 Aug 2007 23:06

Hi Paul, Glad you've started this continuation I expect we could also do with another analysis/recap to make sense of this now. I'm not sure where to start, I'm getting lost as to where we are too. Mumsy.

English Bob

English Bob Report 16 Aug 2007 23:06

.....I have read every mesage & reply, it's great that you have pooled resources for a lost one... and got results! As an old boy on this site I might ask you sleuths to smash my Cooke brick wall....just for fun..... happy hunting, Bob


Joan Report 16 Aug 2007 23:11

Wow, this has really taken off ! I can imagine us in a computer 'pool' like typists in the old days - all clicking away and finding out the facts. Well done and keep up the great work; I'm riveted x x x Hoping for a happy ending for Patricia.


HeadStone Report 16 Aug 2007 23:13

Hi Mumsy Child, I'm way behind at the moment and have not kept up with the momentum of this evenings posting. Hopefully I'll catch up by tomorrow but to be honest I don't think I'm needed anymore. You have all, like me been touched by the sadness of the story and know what our objectives are. To find any living relatives of Patricia. It's been an experience. Time to start reading tonights postings. Bye paul


HeadStone Report 16 Aug 2007 23:32

Hi 'Never Ending Journey'

This is what Rachel has found out:

William Armstrong ( Military Service)
William Armstrong – 777708
DoB: 30 May 1909
Parish: Amble
Enlisted: 12 January 1928 in Newcastle Upon Tyne
Discharged: 23rd October 1941 KR390 Xvii (Sickness & Illness)

Today – I searched the Electoral Roll for Engineer Road
1934 both William and Henrietta living at No. 22
1935 – 1939 both William & Henrietta living at No. 9
1939/1940 only Henrietta living at No. 9
No Rolls for the war years
May 1945 – 1948 only Henrietta living at No. 9
1949 Henrietta Armstrong & George Francis living at No.9
1949 – 1962 Henrietta Armstrong & George Francis living at No. 9
1963 Henrietta Francis & George Francis living at No. 9
1964 – 1971 Henrietta & George living at No. 9

Also someone in an earlier posting has worked out that William had probably lied to join the Royal Artillery. It was calculated from what we now know that he was born 1910 and not 1909

Again in an earlier posting is a death of William Armstrong in Newton/a. This is believed to be Newton Abbott and his age would now fit.
If there has been an update on this, then sorry I've missed it.

Lost for Words ;-)

Lost for Words ;-) Report 17 Aug 2007 00:13

Paul Wright wrote:
but to be honest I don't think I'm needed anymore.

Oh no Paul you're not getting off that lightly (lol) I have been on my PC since 6.30am and apart from a short break to help a friend I've been on the internet searching for Patricias family. You started this and it's a real pleasure to be able to contribute but we need you.


PM me if theirs anything I've missed or you want added. Then it wont get as confusing for others. As new facts come to light I'll update this message to try and keep all the info together.

Patricia Armstrong:
b Twelfth March 1934 St Nicolas Hospital Sub-District of Plumstead in the County of London

d 22 May 1943 at the level crossing near Gelynis Farm, Morganstown, Radyr, RD

Mother: Henrietta Maud Armstrong formerly Wilson
Father: William Armstrong

Henrietta Maud Wilson:
b 2 April 1908 - Wilson Henrietta Maud - Newcastle T. - 10b 62
Mother Theresa Amina W Silmon
Father James Anthony Wilson (Deceased)
Rank or Profession of Father: Seaman Merchant Service

m Twenty Second April 1933 William Armstrong 777708 Gunner R.A.

Marriage Dissolved ?

m Fifth July 1962 George Francis Bus Conductor London Transport Executive

d Nineteenth December 1985; St. Nicolas Hospital, Plumstead

William Armstrong:
b 30th May 1909 (? 10) in Amble Northumberland

Mother Isabel Fisher
Father Randal Armstrong (Deceased)
Rank or Profession of Father: Seaman Merchant Service

Enlisted: 12 January 1928 in Newcastle Upon Tyne
Discharged: 23rd October 1941 KR390 Xvii (Sickness & Illness)

m Twenty Second April 1933 Henrietta Maud Wilson Housemaid

Marriage Dissolved ?

Randall Armstrong:
b March Q 1870 in Bellingham Northumberland

Mother Mary
Father Peter Armstrong

William born 1858 Scotland.
James born 1863 Scotland,
Margaret born 1864 Scotland,
Grace born 1866 Scotland.
Wilhelmia (Minnie) born 1869 Northumberland.

This is just a brief recap of the 'facts' so far for all those trying to keep up with Paul and Rachel. For more details you'll have to read the thread 'A Sad Little Tale' or view Pauls' website.


Mommylonglegs Report 17 Aug 2007 00:23

Now we now know Henrietta Maud Wilsons parents, I am concentrating on her Maternal side to see if I can find any living relatives here in Tynemouth or surrouning areas. I intend spending the day on Saturday at the Library looking at Electoral Rolls. Henrietta's parents were James Anthony Wilson and Theresa Amini De Weld Silmon. They actually lived just around the corner from me and the houses are still standing. Theresa was born in 1882 in Newcastle uon Tyne. Her parents were William O De Weld Silmon and a Sarah Jane Monaghan. William worked at the Grand Hotel here in Tynemouth. From the census we know that she had at least 8 Siblings. Josephine, William, Frank, Frederick, George, Mary, Gertrude and Ferdinand. On Freebmd I have found these marriages. Josephine married a Luis Alfredo in Newcastle 1896 Frank married a Valborg Ormston in Newcastle 1903. George married and had a son called Joe Silmon, who I believe was a well known jazz player. Hopefully they had children and I can find their Births. I willl keep you all posted. Jenny.

Gillian in Aylesbury

Gillian in Aylesbury Report 17 Aug 2007 06:07

Nudge so I can find again


~Twiglet~ Report 17 Aug 2007 09:01

Nudging so I can find it again, am riveted with this, hoping for a good outcome


Carter Report 17 Aug 2007 09:44

WOW !! i have been offline for a couple of days and when i came back i was astounded with how far you have all got. i have been reading the postings and i ended up reading faster and faster to get to the end it was so enthralling. Well done everyone you all deserve a pat on the back. keep up the good work . linda x


Terence Report 17 Aug 2007 10:44

Found the following info on Joe Silmon: Born Aug 16 1937, Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Full name - Joseph Augustine Anthony Silmon-Monerri Father: George Arthur Weld Silmon. Born Dunston-on-Tyne 1889 Mother: Josefa Monerri Fuentes. Born Cartegena, Spain 1899. Terry


Christine2 Report 17 Aug 2007 10:54

Am adding so that I can find this as I have been busy and I shall be for a couple of days. I just had a quick search on here and found a Josephine that had a Joseph Silmon in her tree born 1938 in London but I see from the last post that it isn't likely to be him unless Josephine has her facts wrong:) I was going to ask if anyone had contacted her.

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 17 Aug 2007 11:14

Forgive me if it's been done but has anyone checked divorce records. A divorce for Henrietta would indicate that William was still alive.....and eliminate a few of the same name. Henrietta and George were living together a long time before they married. Gwyn

Lost for Words ;-)

Lost for Words ;-) Report 17 Aug 2007 11:15


Should we put a tree on the internet of what we have so far?

I think ancestry would be good because we can share it. You can invite guests so they don't have to be members and if it's a 'one world tree' anyone can view it. We can always remove it once the work is done so as not to upset living relatives.

Let me know what you think. PM is probably the best way so as not to fill up the board.


~Twiglet~ Report 17 Aug 2007 12:04



Mumsy Report 17 Aug 2007 12:10

Terrence I've sent you a PM Mumsy.


Mommylonglegs Report 17 Aug 2007 13:09

Earlier on this thread I posted a list of William Osman De Welds children. It was their Son, George Silmon born 1889 who was the Father of the Jazz player Joe Silmon. Just 'Google' Joe Silmon. Then go to The Making and Repair of a British Jazzman. It mentions how Joe's Great Grandfather came to this Country. For those that have access to Ancestry. There is a family tree 'Chapman Family' by a NikkiC21. Here you will find the 5XGrandparents of Patrica. I am still trying to check the data on there. I still intend spending the day at the library here to verify a few points and start searching the Electoral Rolls. Keep up the good work everyone. Jenny in Tynemouth.


Nicola Report 17 Aug 2007 14:44

Hi I'm Nikki from Ancestry!!! lol. My great great gran was Theresa Moore (nee Monaghan) her parents were Sarah (nee Ryan) and Francis Monaghan. Theresa was one of several children, her older sister being Sarah Jane Monaghan who later married a Silmon. (Please note the names are debatable - birth certificate & marriage certificates relating to my Theresa show the mother nee Ryan. All of Joe Monerri-Silmon's research including evidence from Morocco regarding Sarah Jane Monaghan & Mohamed/William's marriage shows mother's maiden name as Serrano. I have been told for many years that Theresa's mother was Spanish and there used to be a picture in the family of her with a mantilla however this has dissappeared and I can not easily find out any more information to clarify this Spanish connection or surname so it is still a bit of mystery.) I am in contact with the Joe Monerri-Silmon whom you mention above and have got a lot of details from him. As a young woman Sarah Jane was a governess for the children of D. Francisco GISBERT and whilst working abroad in Tangier Morroco with them she met Mohamed U'led Slimane - who later changed his name to William Osman De WELD. Mohamed/William was a Morrocan boy that had been taken in by the Earl Saint Maur - there is a rumour he was his illegitimate son and evidence to back this up although it has never been proven. Sarah and William had many children including a daughter Theresa Amina De WELD SILMON. She was married first to a man called WILSON, and then to another called HAYES. I had never heard of the accident that you tell of and this is another interesting story to add to a very interesting heritage I am discovering so thank you all very much. Are some of the posters on this list related to the Patricia that died and possibly through to me then? As an aside I am trying to find out more about the life of my great great gran Theresa - I believe she too was a governess abroad, family legend says to the Duke and Duchess of Fife in Belgium but I haven't found a way of proving this yet. I also have pictures of Sarah Jane, Mohamed/William and Theresa. If anyone wants any more info about the family etc. please get in contact.