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Thanks Derek, I could not find one too until this evening and it just shows I ain't no expert. I told you I am tearing my hair out with this lot :-D

Verna..if you Google "Tantum Cottage Hands Road Heanor"..you'll see there is a Ghost Story about the original owner (1791) Mr Tantum.....so the cottage existed long before your Horace built it..unless he knocked down the original building and rebuilt it...some of the older buildings at the bottom of the hill on Hands Road still exist........

Derek.

OMG Derek - you are a STAR! I'm so chuffed with all that you've found out - at the risk of sound a real pain in the backside I would love to have the sibs from 1813 - when you've got a minute.
Verna :-D

Wow! ghost stories as well. I googled as fast as my fingers would go - I think the original house must have been pulled down and maybe Horace built over them or it was across the road. I know my granny had the plans of both houses at one time.
Many years ago, on holiday in the UK, I took my mum over to Heanor and we walked down Hands Road and the people that lived next door to Tantum invited us in and we chatted about the houses. I remember my mum saying that the house was called Tantum because of the connection to the Tantum/Howitt families. I can't remember the name of the other house.
I recall how shocked she was that HER house had been rendered in some awful stone work and you couldn't see the name Tantum Cottage. Ooops! Try telling an old lady that the house didn't belong to her any more.
Verna

Hello again Verna..let's do this chronologically, and I hope you don't het confused...........

JOHN LITHERLAND/LEATHERLAND born Eastwood 1791 died 28.02.1855 of Pneumonia.married:

PHILLIS BROWN 07.11.1813.........as far as I can see they had FOUR children.....JOHN 1821......Elizabeth 29.01.1826/Rebecca 15.03.1829/Martha 23.08.1833.....

The 1851 Census is intriguing because there are also two grandchildren James and John Ferguson..so digging further I found a marriage for Elizabeth to James Ferguson 1847...but they are missing off the 1851....for any number of reasons.

JOHN LEATHERLAND 1821 married ELIZABETH BEARDSLEY at heanor 13.08.1843..they had the following children:-
William 1847-1921
JOHN 1850
Elizabeth 1853
Martha 1855
Emily 1857
Arthur 1859
Thomas 1861
Sarah A 1865

JOHN LEATHERLAND 1850 married HANNAH PARKIN..and the rest you know.....

PHILLIS BROWN baptised Eastwood 25.03.1792 was the daughter of Samuel Brown and Elizabeth Carlin who married 17.07.1783

Samuel Brown was baptised 27.08.1759 son of Paul Brown and Rachel Mee.

William Leatherland 1847 elder brother to John married twice and had a total of TEN children....

so there you are!!..and I have totally forgotten the other half of the enquiry that got me into this saga in the first place!!

I'm sure you will remind me!!

Derek.

Hi Derek
Not sure if I made the mistake again of sending a request to you by the wrong method, but hope you may forgive me as I am not too good at this,
I hoped you might have some information on the parents and siblings of German Whysall born about 1859, (he was married to Alice Richardson born about 1857), I am trying to connect the Nottinghamshire Whysalls and the Derbyshire Whysalls and think German was born at Annersley Notts,
I have a German Hawkin Whysall born 1858 in Derbyshire and think they
may have been cousins, (German Hawkin Whysall was the son of Thomas Whysall born 1840 and Tabitha Hawkins born 1839). Kenneth B

Hi Derek,
Molto grazie! The start of all this was my enquiry into HARRIET ANN JACKSON who evenutally married HORACE LEATHERLAND sometime in 1911 - (after the census as he's showing single. ) Anyway you found out more that I imagined about the LEATHERLAND'S.
Regarding HARRIET ANN, you found out that HARRIET's mother MARY HASLEM, born about 1846?? died soon after HARRIET was born.the father was JOSEPH JACKSON. Dare I ask - any leads on MARY'S parentage, the HASLEM'S???
Verna
freezing cold in Canada! Brrr.

Hello Kenneth..yes. you're in the right place..stick with it......I have had a cursory look at your enquiry..and confirmed the marriage of German Whysall to Alice Richardson..the journey goes from Annesley in Notts.thence to Pentrich in Derbyshire and again to Woodborough Notts.....

But my knowledge of this family is nothing to do with my researches thus far.....but due to my being a complete Cricket fanatic..even playing League cricket in Nottingham well into my dotage..and being a member of Nottinghamshire County cricket club..I can tell you that the youngest child of German 1859 and Alice E of Woodborough..was one WILLIAM WILFRED WHYSALL b 1888 Woodborough..and one of the most famous Nottinghamshire Cricketers, who played four times for England just after WW1.....and died in 1930 after falling on a dance floor, grazing his elbow and dying after septicaemia set.in.......

so bear with me whilst I follow this through and try to answer your question.

Derek.

Thanks Derek
I did know of William Wilfred as my mother used to speak of him, his end was very sad, just in his prime.
Thanks again for your time
Kenneth B

Hello Verna..have delved quite deeply into this Haslam story..it's a bit complicated..so I'm taking it slowly!!

JOSEPH JACKSON married MARY HASLAM 13.11.1870..he was 15 years older than she. Joseph 12.12.1830..Mary 27.09.1846.

Let's take MARY HASLAM first....she was baptised at Wilne/Draycott 27.09.1846..daughter of GEORGE HASLAM and ANNE nee ELLIOTT

George and Anne married 28.12.1845..when
George was 17 and Anne 38!!!

by 1851 George Jackson was dead he died 1849 aged 19/20..having already fathered two children with Anne..our MARY 1846 and William 1847.......

ANNE ELLIOTT was the daughhter of Thomas Elliott and Sarah nee Walker of Mapperley notts who married 26.09.1805...

Anne born 1817 and her brother Herbert 02.11.1812

But in 1840 four years before she married george haslam..she had an illegitimate child Herbert Elliott baptised13.06.1840..after which she got herself a Toyboy!!..and he didn't last long!!

I think I have the parents of George Haslam..but not sure as there are a coupe of alternatives........so that will have to wait.

WILLIAM JACKSON married ANN DAFT 26.09.1830..Ann was already pregnant when...

They had JOSEPH 12.12.1831
Mary Jackson 1837
Ann Jackson 1840 Thomas 08.08.1847

Joseph and Mary married 13.11.1870 had the following children (maybe more)
George Jackson 1871..on the 1871 he is shown as 3 months old..but on the 1881 he is shown as five years old!!.....so i did some digging..and he died July 1875..and Joseph and Mary named their second child ..born 1876 as another George........followed by Arthur in 1878..then a gap..which might have contained other children..until HARRIET ANN JACKSON 13.11.1870........who of course married you know who..

That appears as complete as we can get..except for one other interesting hook-up...Remember THOMAS JACKSON 1847 brother of Joseph..see above........well he married PAMELA JONES (b 01.04.1855)..and in 1901 they are living in Sheffield with a couple of kids AND Joseph's son Arthur 1876 nephew of Thomas..and a wife Georgina........
..and that my dear Verna is just about as far as \i can go........unless you know better!!
(Ithink the parents of George Haslam..father of Mary..were Anthony and Mary, but can't prove it)

Derek.

Evening Derek, can you please see if you could find the surname of Susan Annie born Great Barr,1857 who married Samuel Allen born 1845 Church Broughton. Also the marriage place and date . The first child I have for them is Frank born 1878.

Many thanks.

Not another bleedin' Pork Butcher!!!!

Samuel Allen 1845 Church broughton,,son of Samuel and Mary..
married SUSAN ANNE SARGENT at Aston Juxta Birmingham 13.12.1878

the clue lies in 1881 Census where Clara Sargent is sister-in-law..
They were at Park Street walsall up to and including the 1901..and i thin there were a total of five children...

I notice George Allen got into the act..and it seems to me all this family of Pork Butcher's shared their sons and brother out asll over the |West \midland's as "Butcher's Boys"..quite an Empire!!

anything else?? dear!!

Derek.

Thanks for that and well since you ask dear heart I have William1776. Dad Joseph mum Sarah. I have no details about these two at all.

Not enough information..LA...was he born Church broughton od elsewhere???..I have a William Allen baptised 29.07.1778..son of William.....can't at this moment find a joseph and Sarah..except maybe at Wirksworth???????

All I have got is William born 1776, Church Broughton. Have not the feintest about his parents at all.

Well it could be your William son of William..Born 1776.baptised 1778..more than likely..anyway..he's the only one that qualifies...

Hmmm. Could well be I have the parents wrong then.

Hello \kenneth..the link is definitely there..but complicated..

Initially we have GERMAN WHYSALL 13.05.1821 son of John and Rebecca....who married HARRIET WALTERS 24.07.1848 All Saints Derby

GERMAN WHYSALL 09.01.1859 Annesley notts, was their son..who married Alice E |Richardson at Woodborough..and THEIR son

German Whysall 07.12.1879..brother of WILLIAM WILFRED WHYSALL.......which is all ok..BUT

THOMAS WHYSALL of Ripley Pentrich is hard to trace back because he was the illegitimate son of Ann Whysall..clealry the family is related.Ripley PR's have a host of WHYSALLS.and are the main stem

I think we'll find a common parent..possibly David and Dorothy from the 18th century...........leave it with me....if its to be found \i'll find it!!

Derek.

Thanks Derek,
I have David Whysall's parents as John Whysall born 1718 and Ann Wood,
and also parents for John, as John Whysall born 1690 and Ann no surname for Ann but an approx d.o.b.for her as 1690.

Kenneth

Hi Derek,

Just checked and found I have a previous marriage for David Whysall born 1759 to Ann Cook, and they had a son John born 1787, I don't have a death for Ann Cook but presume that was her demise.

Kenneth B