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Anyone want help with Mysteries THREAD 2**CLOSED**

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date


Zoe Report 26 Mar 2006 17:30

John Do you think this might be him in 1891 Lodging with I think Worton family Name: John Harris Age: 27 Estimated birth year: abt 1864 Relation: Lodger Gender: Male Where Born: Cradley Heath, Staffordshire, England Civil parish: Cradley Ecclesiastical parish: Cradley Town: Cradley County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Source information: RG12/2300 Registration district: Stourbridge Sub registration district: Halesowen ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Folio: 71 Page: 17 GSU Number: 6097410 Zoe


Bernard Report 26 Mar 2006 18:49

Hello Zoe, Thanks for the info re John Hartley. It looks as though he either died young, or emigrated. A trip to County Records Office seems to be a way of checking for an early death in Parish Records. Emigration would create more problems, as I understand that comprehensive ships' manifests were not kept in Liverpool until much later. Regards Bernard


John Report 26 Mar 2006 19:25

Hello Zoe, Everything about the entry re John Harris fits except for the date of birth.. Cradley is the right place of birth and a likely place of residence. His birth cert shows Nov 1866 which ties in exactly with the age shown on his Marriage Cert - 29 yo. in May 1896. But as you know ages in the census can be very variable and so I think it is a strong possability and the best so far. Would you mind sending me details of the family he is staying with and the address, as there might well be a clue there. Thanks for what you have done John


Christine Report 26 Mar 2006 22:51

your help is appereciate . sorry i got 2 williams familys .mix up.sorry


Claire Report 26 Mar 2006 22:57

Hi Zoe, Thank you for your time, sorry if it's doing your head in too! You've come up with some really good info, but it's still confusing isn't it!!! It's just typical I don't come from a family with a straight forward background! LOL! I think we can agree that Ellen, Sarah & did you say Mary are the children of Elizabeth & Thomas Kennedy. Also I agree that Cavannah S Kennedy is most likely Sarahs daughter. Maybe Sarah went to London to have the child to avoid the 'Shame', seeing how it looks as though she wasn't married! Now, what do you think to this idea.... Elizabeth Kennedy, maybe she never married Thomas & Singleton is her maiden name. The reason why I'm saying this is because Arthur Fitzroy Thompson & Ellen named their 2nd son Thomas Singleton Thompson. Surely you wouldn't give your child the middle name of your stepfathers surname, or would you? Oh, I don't know... they're a confusing bunch! Also, I'm wondering if the S in Cavannahs name (Sarahs daughter, we think!!!) stands for Singleton!?!... I guess it could also stand for Sarah, I'm just guessing! And just to confuse you even more - Mary Hadfield / Hatfield - Do you think she could be Ellens mother? If Mary was born 1805 & Ellen not until 1835 - It's feasible don't you think? I know that possibily throws out the whole idea that Singleton was Ellens maiden name. Then again if Sarah & Ellen are sisters then Mary would be Sarahs mother too so why on the census when Sarah & Mary are living together why would Mary be down as a boarder, surely if she was her mother it would say so! ArrrrAgh!!!! I'm going to shut up.... I'm confusing you now aren't I!?!? I'll wait & see what you come up with next! Thanks a million, much appreciated, Claire xxx


Wendy Report 26 Mar 2006 23:15

Hi Zoe, My Gt grandparents were James Dodd 1862-1944 Birkenhead & Betty Steens Bird 1867-1925 Hoose,Cheshire.They were married 18 Dec 1886 at St Pauls Church,Rock Ferry.They had 11 children between 1888 and 1909.I have loads of information on the Bird side but seem to get no further back than my grandfather ,James Dodd. I have this from the 1891 census 1891 CENSUS - HOOSE(HOYLAKE) RG12 Piece 2877 Folio 65 Page 52.Administrative County of Chester Civil Parish:Hoose Urban Sanitary District:West Kirby & Hoylake Parliamentary Division: Wirral Ecclesiastical District:Holy Trinity Hoylake James DODD Head M age last birthday 28 occupation - signalman born Cheshire Bi rkenhead Betty S '' Wife M ' ' ' 2 3' ' Hoylake James H ' So n ' ' ' 3 ' ' ' Harry S So n ' ' ' 1 ' ' ' ADDRESS:- 383 Dawson Street,HOOSE number of rooms occupied 4 and this from the 1901 census Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Image Address:-8 Walker Street,Hoylake Cheshire Bessie Dodd abt 1897 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Daughter Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Betty Steene Dodd abt 1868 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Wife Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Frank Dodd abt 1892 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Harry Steer Dodd abt 1890 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Jack Dodd abt 1894 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire James Dodd abt 1863 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Head Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire James Henry Dodd abt 1888 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire Thomas Steene Dodd abt 1900 Hoylake, Cheshire, England Son Hoylake cum West Kirby Cheshire NB have been informed by me of the spelling error of Steene instead of Steens Name: James Dodd Age: 38 Estimated birth year: abt 1863 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Civil parish: Hoylake cum West Kirby Ecclesiatical parish: Hoylake Holy Trinity County/Island: Cheshire Country: England Source information: RG13/3387 Registration district: Wirral Sub-registration district: Woodchurch would be grateful for any help,thanks ,wendy


Zoe Report 27 Mar 2006 12:50

Claire Claire Sorry to burst your bubble she must have been married as she was a Widower (Elizabeth Singleton). But did find this info as I said maybe they are sisters if only we could find a marriage of hers so we would get fathers name Elizabeth Hadfield Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 21 OCT 1810 Eccles, Lancashire, England Parents: Father: Joseph Hadfield Mother: Alice ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mary Hatfield Female Event(s): Birth: Christening: 13 MAY 1804 Eccles, Lancashire, England Parents: Father: Joseph Hatfield Mother: Alice ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Another sibling Hannah Marria Hatfield - International Genealogical Index Gender: Female Christening: 04 DEC 1808 Eccles, Lancashire, England *Spelling mistakes occur often Hadfield/Hatfield** Here's Mary for you in 1851as a patient Name: Mary Hadfield Age: 46 Estimated birth year: abt 1805 Relation: Patient Gender: Female Where born: Eccles, Lancashire, England Civil parish: Lancaster Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary Town: Lancaster County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Source information: HO107/2272 Registration district: Lancaster Sub-registration district: Lancaster ED, institution, or vessel: County Lunatic Asylum Lancaster Folio: 585 Page: 36 Household schedule number: 1 GSU Number: 87299 Its a shame Mary is always on her own in censuses why don't you try for a 1841 lookup for Mary see who she is with?? ~ may shed some light and might not LOL Zoe


Zoe Report 27 Mar 2006 13:07

Wendy What was his occupation and fathers name and occupation on the marriage cert and what address did they put on Marriage cert for his address? Zoe


Emma Report 27 Mar 2006 14:00

Thank you so much for all of that information, you're a little goldmine, ta Emma


Claire Report 27 Mar 2006 14:26

Hello again Zoe! Ok, sorry my mistake about Elizabeth Singleton not being married. This family have got me so I don't know whether I'm coming or going. Ready for next lot of info???? Someone has kindly e-mailed me some 1841 censuses, but they're not easy to make out. Here's the info I have: Mary Hadfield age 40 Manchester Sarah Hadfield age 14 Ann Hadfield age 11 Joesph Hadfield 9 Unfortunately I can't make out street name or occupation for Mary Next: Mary Hadfield age 40 Barton Upon Irwell & Salford Not sure of address, could be Wharf Street, but it's just an educated guess! Others living with her are: Eliza Hadfield age 20 Maria Hadfield age 20 Can't read Mary's occupation but looks like Eliza & Maria are Cotton ? something! Don't know if this is any use but I also have an Elizabeth Singleton on the 1841 census. Elizabeth Singleton age 30 Chorlton, Manchester & Salford others living with her are: Eleanor Singleton age 55 John Singleton age 30 Hannah Singleton age 25 * The thing that intrigues me about this one is the John Singleton, if you remember there was a John Singleton on Arthur & Ellens marriage cert as a wittness* Maybe she's his brother or maybe just maybe... dare I say it, Could she be his wife? No, then again maybe not because there are no Kennedy kids. This bruise on my head is getting bigger where I keep banging my head against the wall!!!! LOL!!! I'm stuck & don't know where to go next Any more ideas? Thanks a million, Claire xxx


David Report 27 Mar 2006 22:36

Hi Zoe. If you have the time....perhaps this will test you. I've been trying for ages now with no joy. Fresh eyes might do the trick.. I am trying to find George MORTIMER in the 1891 census. In 1881 he was living with his parents at 11 Chapman Place, St Georges in the East, London. He was 3 yrs old. I have his birth cert and that of his sister Eliza. I know that his father (Joseph) died in 1883 and I cannot find a re-marriage for his wife Ann. George joined the army 1n 1896 under the name of George CRAWLEY. I know that this is the right George because he ended up in the Far East as a prison warder in Changhi prison. I have his Army attestation papers. On these papers he states that his next of kin is his mother (annie Crawley) and an alternative is his elder sister Eliza. He also states that his mothers address (at the time of enlistment) was 19 Upper Fenton St, St Georges in the East. I have tried looking for MORTIMER and CRAWLEY through these pages but always draw a blank. In 1891 he would be 14/15 years old. Perhaps he was missed off the 1891 census somehow, or in an institution somewhere. I just do not know. If you could throw another perspective on it, that would be great. Thanks for your time......Rose.


Ruth Report 27 Mar 2006 23:09



Zoe Report 27 Mar 2006 23:45

Claire I think your looking for an Elizabeth Singleton in 1841 when there wasn't one did you not post the Kennedy's in 1841?? Gonna have a think about this one for a while see if I come up with anything Zo


Zoe Report 27 Mar 2006 23:50

Elaine He may have been dead by the time of marriage they did not always ask is he alive when taking fathers name at marriage.. I really don't know what to suggest..other then on the 1891 does it say she is married or a widower..And have you found her i the 1901. ~ hope haven't already asked this help lots of people sometimes get mixed up have to check Zoe


Zoe Report 28 Mar 2006 00:04

Raymond Ok 1871 Head is a Sawyer Elizabeth Henderson abt 1846 Birkenhead, Cheshire, England Wife Ruabon Denbighshire John Henderson abt 1845 Scotland Head Ruabon Denbighshire Robert J Henderson abt 1868 Cefn Mawr, Denbighshire, Wales Son Ruabon Denbighshire Source information: RG10/5652 Registration district: Wrexham Sub-registration district: Ruabon ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Folio: 194 Page: 30 Household schedule number: 185 GSU Number: 892484 the answer as to why Elizabeth Ann is not there maybe because the next 2 pages are missing from this census and they are at the bottom of this page so Elizabeth if there should be on next page but it is missing!! I think that she was there it's just the page is missing....she is with them in 1881 Hope that helps or was there something else you needed Zoe


Zoe Report 28 Mar 2006 00:16

Rose So 1881 Ann Mortimer abt 1852 Wapping, Middlesex, England Wife 11 Chapman Pl, St George in the East, London, England Eliza A. Mortimer abt 1873 St Georges East, Middlesex, England Daughter 11 Chapman Pl, St George in the East, London, England George M. Mortimer abt 1878 St Georges East, Middlesex, England Son 11 Chapman Pl, St George in the East, London, England Joseph Mortimer abt 1852 St Georges East, Middlesex, England Husband (Head) 11 Chapman Pl, St George in the East, London, England Do you have Ann in previous censuses and is she consistant with age and place of birth? What was her maiden name? Zoe


Zoe Report 28 Mar 2006 00:23

Ruth Are you wanting to trace your tree if so how old was your mother at time of marriage then you could find her birth cert then you would get both her parents names and where she was born and her birth date.. If you want address lookups at that period in time I don't know if any are around but you could try the local library to the area they lived in.. If you give me her age I will try to find her birth cert for you Zoe


Claire Report 28 Mar 2006 00:27

Hi Zoe, Yes, you're right, I realized later what I'd done. And Yes, I have got the Kennedy's in 1841 Barton Upon Irwell & Salford census. Thomas 45 Elizabeth 30 Sarah 8 Mary 7 Ellen 6 Living North Road Pendleton, says he was a shop keeper born out of the country. Guess their still could be a link with the John Singleton though! I'll let you think about it, without confusing you anymore! Thanks again, Claire xx


Raymond Report 28 Mar 2006 09:42

Hi Zoe Thanks for clearing that 1871 census up I can not find Elizabeth Osborne Birth 1845 Birkenhead or her marriage to John Henderson b 1845 Glasgow any help there ? Thank you Ann


David Report 28 Mar 2006 10:35

Hi Zoe... Re: MORTIMER/CRAWLEY. Joseph MORTIMER married Ann BURWOOD 12 Feb 1872 in Stepney. First child Eliza Ann born 15 Nov 1872 (mother formerly BURWOOD) on birth cert. 1881 Ann (29) b. Wapping. 1871 Ann (19) b. St Geoges in the East. 1861 Ann (9) b. St Georges in the East.(Inconsistent as regards place of birth on census). Perhaps thats where I've gone wrong?? I new I needed fresh eyes. ha. lol Rose..