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Winders Family St Helens

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Feb 2010 22:24

I am going back over previous messages and contacts for clues.

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 12 Feb 2010 22:26

This is revenge Sherlock
after kimberley carter green and Haggis.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 13 Feb 2010 08:49

And they are so neatly put to bed and all tied up in ribbon. Did you know I found Walter James, a son of James who married Hannah/Anna in Queensland Australia. And I have a great hope that I might have located a seedling on the same side of the family.

But I digress. I am looking at page 16 of the notes. Where Susan puts question marks all over the page and says she can not look at the original images. I am doing that.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 13 Feb 2010 10:36

Using 1871 as a starting point I am sorting the census information into family groups. Wild differences in dates of birth and also the names. Have excluded some Winder matches. Think I may need to include them because they become Winders in 1881. All names are born in Lancashire.

Will work through and fill in census details for each. Add additional families if you wish

Right now I need to go to bed. And unfortunately I will be AWOL tomorrow.

Oh by the way be my guest start on the 1861 census if you wish!!!



1871 - William 1844, bricklayer, Alice 1849, John William 1869, Alice 1870

1881 - William Alice John William Alice Frances Jessie Blanche




1871 – John 1841, coalminer, Elizabeth 1841, William 1865, Anna 1867, Elizabeth 1869

1881 – John 1835, Elizabeth 1845 William 1865 Mary E. 1871 Elizabeth 1875 John 1878



1871 – William b. ??? Colliery Lab, Jane 1824, William 1852 (coal) Mary 1853 (glass smoother),Ann J. 1855, Maria 1862, Lydia 1864, Jane 1870

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 Feb 2010 16:51

this thread keeps coming up at the top of 'my threads' as I input on abt p3. Have lost the plot since then but decided to join in again by printing it off.

A couple of pages ago it was asked which child could be the offspring of William Winder & Elizabeth Dewhurst

to eliminate
Emma b 1838 Preston mmn = Turnbull
Ruth b 1840- Preston mmn = Turnbull

also check of Wm married to Ellen Taylor age - age 19 on marriage on 22 Aug 1887 (as was Ellen Taylor)

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 Feb 2010 17:46

If William & Elizabeth Dewhurst married Preston 1836 and stayed in the Preston area there are 8 children (no William) born to a Winder with mmn = Dewhurst in Broughton, Preston

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 Feb 2010 17:53

if the John Winder b 1839 in your summary is this one

Births Dec 1839 (>99%)
Winder John Preston 21 567

you could discount it as (from Lancs bmd) mmn = Clayton

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1839
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name
WINDER John Preston Preston CLAYTON

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 Feb 2010 18:01

just trying to work thru the summary here - not sure I am helping much!

the Winder Dorothy Mount marriage took place in Lancaster (which again has mmn on births on lancs bmd)

there are 8 births with mmn = Mount up to 1852

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 Feb 2010 18:26

the 2 witnesses to Wm/Ellen marriage?

Marriage: 6 Nov 1887 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
William Johnson - 24 Miner Bachelor of Parr
Mary Taylor - (X), 20 Spinster of Parr
Groom's Father: Ralph Johnson, Boatman
Bride's Father: Thomas Taylor, Labourer
Witness: John Austin, (X); Elizabeth Austin, (X)
Married by Banns by: William Edmondson
Register: Marriages 1879 - 1894, Page 120, Entry 239
Source: LDS Film 1849640

for ref

Marriage: 22 Aug 1887 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire, England
William Winders - (X), 19 Miner Bachelor of Parr
Ellen Taylor - 19 Spinster of Parr
Groom's Father: John Winders, Glass Maker
Bride's Father: Thomas Smith, Labourer
>>>>Witness: William Johnson; Mary Taylor, (X)<<<<<
Married by Banns by: A. A. Nunn
Register: Marriages 1879 - 1894, Page 116, Entry 231
Source: LDS Film 1849640

???? does this indicate bride's father was possibly written incorrectly for Ellen

LadyKira

LadyKira Report 13 Feb 2010 20:12

How clever of you Lancashire Ann.

Susan

Susan Report 13 Feb 2010 20:48

1871 census - household transcription
Person: JOHNSON, Ralph
Address: Park Road, Parr, St Helen
JOHNSON, Ralph Head M 52 1819 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Sarah Wife F 41 1830 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Matthew Son M 14 1857 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, John Son M 11 1860 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Ralph Son M 9 1862 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, William Son M 7 1864 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Simeon Son M 5 1866 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Sarah Daughter F 3 1868 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Thomas Son M 1 1870 Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Esther Mother F 84 1787 Lancashire



Its me LK again

Susan

Susan Report 13 Feb 2010 20:57

1891 census - household transcription
Person: JOHNSON, William
Address: 272, Park Road, Parr, St Helens
JOHNSON, William Head Married M 27 1864 Coal Miner
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Mary Wife Married F 24 1867
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 3 1888
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, John Son Single M 1 1890
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
CAYLE, Elizabeth Boarder Widow F 32 1859 Colliery Office Cleaner
St Helens
Lancashire


I think we are getting somewhere with Ellen

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 13 Feb 2010 21:01

Oh botheration. I want to stay and play. I have to go out today. All day. I am feeling so guilty that I have to do something other than what I really wish to do.

I will pay lots of attention to the new info this evening.

Mopes off muttering and snaps at OH for dragging her out to look at stupid vintage motor cars all day!!!

Susan

Susan Report 13 Feb 2010 21:09

Mary marries again

1911 census - household transcription
Person: JOHNSON, John
Address: 210 Park Road St Helens
LEE, Thomas Head Married M 37 1874 Coal Miner Hewer Lancashire St Helens VIEW
LEE, Mary Wife Married F 42 1869 Lancashire St Helens VIEW
JOHNSON, Elizabeth Stepdaughter Single F 23 1888 Glass Grinder Lancashire St Helens VIEW
JOHNSON, John Stepson M 21 1890 Glass Worker Bench Minder Lancashire St Helens VIEW
JOHNSON, Florence Stepdaughter F 19 1892 Glass Polisher Lancashire St Helens VIEW
JOHNSON, William Stepson M 16 1895 Bench Minder Lancashire St Helens VIEW
JOHNSON, Thomas Stepson M 13 1898 School Lancashire St Helens VIEW
JOHNSON, Bensiman Stepson M 9 1902 Lancashire St Helens VIEW
BOYLE, Elizabeth Boarder Widow F 50 1861 Office Cleaner Lancashire St Helens

Susan

Susan Report 13 Feb 2010 21:11

Ahh
Poor Sherlock.
Just imagine your ancestors might have been driving one just like it. That should keep you going.

Susan

Susan Report 13 Feb 2010 21:14

1901 census - household transcription
Person: JOHNSON, John
Address: 210, Park Road, St Helens


JOHNSON, William Head Married M 36 1865 Coal Hewer
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Mary Wife Married F 35 1866
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Elizabeth Daughter Single F 13 1888
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, John Son Single M 11 1890
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Florence Daughter Single F 9 1892
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, William Son Single M 6 1895
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
JOHNSON, Thomas Son Single M 3 1898
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
BOYLE, Elizabeth Mother-In-Law Widow F 60 1841
St Helens
Lancashire



ooo double check as Elisabeth boyle is mother in law

Susan

Susan Report 13 Feb 2010 21:53

I am still having trouble finding Thomas with May and Elle together.

this ne is interesting as same road as Johnsons


1901 census - household transcription
Person: TAYLOR, Thomas
Address: 150, Park Road, St Helens
TAYLOR, Thomas Head Married M 58 1843 Plate Layer (Railway)
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
TAYLOR, Ann Wife Married F 58 1843
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LEATHER, Ann Servant Single F 25 1876 House Maid
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
CARTWRIGHT, Thomas Boarder Single M 28 1873 Laborer (Brick Layer)
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
WRIGHT, John Boarder Single M 46 1855 Coal Hewer
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
RAWLINSON, Maude Grand Child Single F 9 1892
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LEATHER, Lydia Grand Child Single F 6 1895
St Helens
Lancashire VIEW
LEATHER, Mary Grand Child Single F 2 1899
St Helens
Lancashire

lancashireAnn

lancashireAnn Report 13 Feb 2010 23:32

are this lot all intermingled!

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1910
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
LEE * Thomas JOHNSON Mary Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended Prescot R/85/40
LEE * Thomas SMITH Mary Prescot Register Office or Registrar Attended

ie Mary nee Smith 1st marriage Johnson

and to throw another into the meltin pot - what's with taylors living with Leathers

1881
Thomas TAYLOR Head M Male 42 Billinge, Lancashire, England Labourer
Ann TAYLOR Wife M Female 37 Windle, Lancashire, England Wife Labourer
John LEATHER Boarder W Male 54 Northwich, Cheshire, England Labourer
Margaret LEATHER Boarder U Female 12 Windle, Lancashire, England Scholar
Annie LEATHER Boarder U Female 6 Windle, Lancashire, England Scholar

Source Information:
Dwelling 58 City Windle
Census Place Windle, Lancashire, England
Family History Library Film 1341893
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3731 / 47
Page Number 35

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 14 Feb 2010 09:03

Hi I'm back.

Refresh my memory that you have the marriage certificate for Ellen Taylor and William Winders. I can not see that written on the thread.

Will the certificate show the name of Ellen Taylor's father. That info will solve one of the major questions. By the look of the new info from lancashireAnn, I think the certificate is important.

Are we agreed that Ellen Taylor's father was Thomas Taylor.

AuntySherlock

AuntySherlock Report 14 Feb 2010 09:18

Would you please do me a look up for this one in your Lancs records.

Births Sep 1838 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>>WINDERS John Warrington 20 764

He is on the list of potential children of William and Elizabeth Winders nee Dewhurst.

I will go back and put notes against the other children.