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Birth Certificates UPDATE

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Marian

Marian Report 10 Jan 2010 20:42

Thank you Mary, for your interest and information. Regards Marian x

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 10 Jan 2010 21:14

That does indeed seem to be the same Thomas Tedstone that Mary has found. So he was never a glass maker. Oh hecky thump.

Janey?

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 11 Jan 2010 02:03

Because its still very strange to me that a death cert giving date of birth as 28th Sept 1894 and the birth cert bought by Marion is a different date and 2 years earlier with different occupation for father.
We have got to be missing something.

Relative had said Jennie Hall wasnt a relative. Hall being her married name
Im thinking we need to be looking for another Jessie born oct qt 1894

Clutching at straws. Jessie Hall 1894 dec qt Kings Norton 6c 424

Can someone find her on the 1901 census ?

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 11 Jan 2010 12:39

Theres 2 around the correct age. in the Kings Norton reg. district......

HALL, James Head Married M 36 1865 Cabinet Maker
Birmingham VIEW
HALL, Mary A Wife Married F 37 1864
Arley
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, James Son M 12 1889
Birmingham VIEW
HALL, Harry Son M 11 1890
Birmingham VIEW
HALL, Lilian Daughter F 9 1892
Birmingham VIEW
HALL, Jessie Daughter F 6 1895
Birmingham VIEW
HALL, Frank Son M 3 1898
Birmingham VIEW
HALL, Herbert Son M 1 1900
Birmingham VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
2812 Folio:
128 Page:
18

Registration District:
Kings Norton Sub District:
Kings Norton EnumerationDistrict:
73 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Pauls

Civil Parish:
Balsall Heath Municipal Borough:
Address:
86, Vincent Street, Balsall Heath County:
Worcestershire



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HALL, Edward Hy Head Married M 34 1867 Shoeing Blacksmith
Burntwood
Staffordshire VIEW
HALL, Sarah Ann Wife Married F 32 1869
Ettingshall
Staffordshire VIEW
HALL, Jessie Daughter F 7 1894
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, John Edward Son M 5 1896
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, William Henry Son M 3 1898
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
2819 Folio:
42 Page:
21

Registration District:
Kings Norton Sub District:
Harborne EnumerationDistrict:
17 Ecclesiastical Parish:
St Chads Smethwick

Civil Parish:
Smethwick (Staffordshire) Municipal Borough:
Address:
140, Shireland Road, Smethwick (Staffordshire) County:
Worcestershire

Nicky

EDIT....Another in Solihull....

TYERS, James Head Married M 76 1825 Tailor
Uppingham
Rutland VIEW
TYERS, Anne M Wife Married F 74 1827
Alextore
Rutland VIEW
HALL, Alexander Boarder Married M 48 1853 Cabinet Case Maker
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, Helen B Boarder Married F 48 1853
Leicester
Leicestershire VIEW
HALL, Alexander Boarder Single M 23 1878 Cabinet Case Maker
Warwick
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, Mary Ellen Daughter Single F 17 1884
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, Magdalen Daughter F 10 1891
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, Jessie Boarder F 8 1893
Birmingham
Warwickshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
2922 Folio:
92 Page:
19

Registration District:
Solihull Sub District:
Solihull EnumerationDistrict:
11 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Yardley St Cyprian Hay Mill

Civil Parish:
Yardley (Worcs) Municipal Borough:
Address:
3, (Alveston Villas), Deakin's Lane, Yardley (Worcs), Hay Mill County:
Warwickshire



And then theres this one with a Halesowen connection....

POOLE, Louisa Head Widow F 65 1836
Clent
Worcestershire VIEW
HALL, Ellen Daughter Widow F 36 1865 Examiner Ammunition Works
Halesowen
Worcestershire VIEW
HALL, Mary L Grand Daughter Single F 17 1884 Button Carder
Aston Manor
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, Amy E Grand Daughter Single F 15 1886 Button Boxer
Aston Manor
Warwickshire VIEW
HALL, Jessie B Grand Daughter F 9 1892
Aston Manor
Warwickshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
2887 Folio:
111 Page:
23

Registration District:
Aston Sub District:
Aston Manor EnumerationDistrict:
48 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Aston by Birmingham St Peter & St Paul

Civil Parish:
Aston Manor Municipal Borough:
Address:
72, Gladstone Street, Aston Manor County:
Warwickshire

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 11 Jan 2010 12:55

There are 3 or 4 Jessie Halls in 1901 that could be that one. Are you suggesting she could be Jennie, or do you think Jessie Tedstone?

Anything is possible, but on marriage Jennie gives her surname as Bradford, and Jessie as Tedstone.

The date of birth given at the death of Jessie would have been provided by whoever registered the death. I don't know if Marian has got the actual certificate, the date appears on Ancestry deaths. I appreciate we are getting desperate, but it wasn't uncommon for people to get their birthdate or year wrong. It wasn't necessary to produce a birth certificate when registering a death - and still isn't.

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 11 Jan 2010 13:23

I think Quinsgran thinks Jessie may have been born registered Jessie Hall, and then maybe called herself Tedstone later in life when she found out who her father was?

The 4 1901 entries I`ve given don`t prove it either way....

I`ve just read back through the thread to try and get it straight in my mind.

Marian says that she knows her mother was born and bought up in Halesowen as she worked at the factory there.............. to work in the factory she would have been what 14 years old? maybe older, which takes us to 1906 or 1908 as living in Halesowen, most people can`t remember anything of the first 5 years of their lives apart from what they`ve been told, so think we need to keep an open mind on the birthplace.

The lack of middle name of Frederick should not be considered too important in my opinion.......some of my lot seem to add middle names at their marriage that certainly were not on either their birth cert. or baptism record.

Was Jessie Tedstones birth never registered and was she in fact an illigitimate child of a close relative?, or neighbour? bought up by the Hall family, and given a created story as to where she came from?

This is a tough one....


Nicky

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 11 Jan 2010 15:04

Been looking in to the Mary Jane Tedstone marriage to Charles Vale in 1896 at the possibility that she was Thomas`s widow {Nee Bradford}.....

Found her in 1901 and 1911, age and birthplace matches up on both and in 1881 when she is with her parents and brother

Charles TEDSTONE Head M Male 50 Kington, Hereford, England General Laborer
Mary TEDSTONE Wife M Female 50 Bromyard, Hereford, England
Henry TEDSTONE Son U Male 19 Kington, Hereford, England Saddler's Apprentice
Mary J. TEDSTONE Daur Female 11 Kington, Hereford, England Scholar


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 9 Crooked Well
Census Place Kington, Hereford, England
Family History Library Film 1341629
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2610 / 5
Page Number 2

so we can now rule this one out....


Nicky

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 11 Jan 2010 15:28

We can also rule out Mary Eliza Tedstone who died Bromsgrove in 1894 age 26 as possibly being Jessies mother { nee Bradford} ,as Tedstone was her birth name, and she is with parents in census up until 1891.

She does however have a brother Thomas Frederick Tedstone born c1875, he is Thomas Fred. in 1881 and 1891 but by 1901 drops the Frederick. he is an Ag lab in 1891, and then a bricklayer in 1901 and 1911...no mention of glasscutter, so can we rule him out as potential father??


Nicky

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 11 Jan 2010 19:18

I know dates of birth can be wrong on death certs but its usually the year that is wrong not the day and month.

On Jessies marriage cert in 1921 she is 27 making her born 1894. Father Thomas a groom.

The birth cert Marion bought for Jessie Tedstone born 1892 had the father as Thomas occ. glass cutter.

The name Thomas Frederick was given to Marion by her cousin as Jessies fathers name. Marion later found her cousin had assumed he had the middle name Frederick

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 11 Jan 2010 19:31

The problem is I can`t find a Thomas Tedstone Glasscutter in any census, Ag labs, Blacksmiths, Grooms etc.......but no glasscutters!!

There is a T. Tedstone in a Lunatic Asylum in Birmingham in 1891, POB unknown......may be a red herring, but might fit in with Marians story about Thomas going insane and committing suicide?

Agree that year is usually wrong not the date, so think that maybe the Jessie Tedstone born to Mary Jane Radford and Thomas Tedstone isn`t Marians grandmother............but then begs the question what happened to that family then.? there can`t be 2 Jessie Tedstones with a father named Thomas who dissapear......


Nicky

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 11 Jan 2010 19:59

Okay perhaps we can find the death of Jessie E Tedstone who married William Coley in 1922 to determine her date of birth.

Hope she died after 1969 july qt

I found a birth for Jessie Elizabeth Tedstone born 1897so thats probably her and we can rule that out

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 11 Jan 2010 20:33

Nearest is this one:

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Jessie Coley
Name: Jessie Coley
Death Registration Month/Year: 1964
Age at death (estimated): 51
Registration district: Birmingham
Inferred County: Warwickshire
Volume: 9c
Page: 399

No Jessie E Coley showing up at all.

EDIT I tell a lie:

Name: Jessie Elizabeth Coley
Birth Date: 30 May 1897
Death Registration Month/Year: Jun 1986
Age at death (estimated): 89
Registration district: Cheltenham
Inferred County: Gloucestershire
Volume: 22
Page: 1547

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 11 Jan 2010 22:47

What do people think on this?

I feel we are getting nowhere unless Marian purchases every bm and d of every Hadley, Bradford and Tedstone in the Midlands.

I can live with Jessie Tedstone being told her parents died when they didn't. I can live with her father being a glass cutter and then a groom domestic. I can live with her birth year being two years out.

What I can't live with is Jennie Hall, nee Bradford, who doesn't exist prior to her marriage, springing up from Wales to Accrington and suddenly rescuing a complete stranger from Halesowen.

And with the same maiden name as Jessie's supposed mother.

I hesitate to suggest it, cos there is no proof, and I am sure we have all thought it, but it Jennie Bradford really Mary Jane Bradford?

Margaret

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 12 Jan 2010 00:06

I can see why your thinking it, but if Mary Jane Bradford is Jennie Bradford/ Hall, why would she have her own daughter living with her and call her a niece??

Also Jennie on the census says she comes from Wales { I can`t find her though}...and Mary Jane Bradford in 1881 is from Staffs/Worcester area.

Think i`ve found the birth records for the 3 Bradford girls under Dudley registeration district......if you google Quarry Bank it tells you its a couple of miles away, but i know Quarry Bank is listed under Stourbridge reg. district so am a bit confused.

FreeBMD has Mary jane Bradford born Dec. 1871
Annie letitia Bradford born Dec. 1873
Hannah Bradford born jun 1875

Nicky

Nickydownsouth

Nickydownsouth Report 12 Jan 2010 00:47

Right really clutching at straws here but...

What if Jennie wasn`t born a Bradford at all ........she was born in Wales, there are quite a few Jenney/Jennie/Janets born in Denbigshire, maybe her mother was widowed/deserted and later took up with a John Bradford who was then in fact her stepfather?

There were i belive 8 Bradford children John, George etc who someone posted on the earlier pages...could that be who Jennies mum took up with,? it would explain why we can`t find her before her marriage.

Marain mentioned something about a cousin asking about Jennie Hall and being snapped at that she wasn`t her grandma { or something like that, its too late to read back through the thread now} prehaps the step cousins/sisters Annie and Hannah resented her taking the Bradford name and treating their father/uncle as family.

Wild guess i know and still dosn`t explain what happened to Thomas and Mary Jane Tedstone, but is certainly possible.

Nicky

Quinsgran

Quinsgran Report 12 Jan 2010 01:47

Marions cousin said she remembers Jennie Hall who was referred to as grandma Hall.

When she asked if she was her grandma too ,was told quite abruptly NO she is no blood relative.

Get out the time machine please and ask them whats going on.

Marian

Marian Report 12 Jan 2010 09:01

Hi everyone, thank you for all your hard work, I do appreciate everything you are doing to help me. Just one thing, Jessie was never on a census with Jennie Hall. It was in the 1901 and 1911 censuses she appeared with the Hadleys in Stourbridge and they said she was a niece. I also wondered, although she was told Thomas had died, maybe he didn't and she found him later in life when he was a glass cutter, thats why we can't find a death for him. Did Jennie or Annie at some point tell her the truth. I agree that the 1892 birth cert is perhaps not the right one. Her birth and marriage cert say 1894 and we always knew her birthday to be 28th September. Its a right old game, you all work so fast and I'm tyring to decipher all the information you have kindly provided for me. Thank you.

Mary

Mary Report 12 Jan 2010 09:26

I put the idea of Jennie Hall being Mary Jane Bradford a while back and I still tend to think it,but no proof to back it up.
Maryb

ChristineinPortugal

ChristineinPortugal Report 12 Jan 2010 09:32

Marian, Did you get the marriage cert for Mary Jane Bradford and Thomas Tedstone?

Christine

Madmeg

Madmeg Report 12 Jan 2010 19:03

Yes I remember it was suggested that Jennie was Mary Jane, but we had to ignore that possibility until we absolutely ran out of ideas - which I am fast doing.

I've looked through the thread again and can't see a host of Bradfords that Jennie's mum might have taken up with. The idea is plausible but unless the child was quite young when mum took up with John Bradford she'd probably have kept her own surname. And if she is calling herself Bradford when she marries, surely she would appear on a census called Bradford too even if that wasn't her birth name.

Yes there are Jennies etc in Denbighshire - most of them unfortunately are servants in 1891. My favourite was Jennie Lloyd b 1875, she is with parents Edward and Jane E in Liverpool in 1881, the family is still there in 1891 but she isn't. So nothing to suggest her mother took up with a Bradford. I have scoured the censuses for a John Bradford stone mason.

Yes Marian has sent for the Thomas Tedstone/Mary Jane Bradford marriage.

I also looked for deaths of John Bradford in any reasonable area, best fit was Dec 1882, Kington, age 62. I then looked for him on the 1881 census and can't find him!!!