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Lucy

Do NOT get any more certificates until the ones you have ordered arrive.


Wait and see what new information you get from those.



Rootgatherer ....................

I've searched all the sites known to me at least 3 times for those Carash's, and I've used every trick that I know

............... and everything comes up with a great big zero!


It really is as if they dropped down out of the sky for that one event, and then retreated again!



sylvia

Yer i think thats i good idea i think i have got it then i get lost again.. i cant put this cedric person anyone or link him to one of the women thats what has thrown me now..
xx

Ok i wont order any more till the first lot come hopfully by the end of the week i will have Rubys birth and Rubys marriage to john forder so that will be a good starting point

My family is very wierd they have made it difficult for us to find them

xx

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting ordering any of those certificates until the ones on order have arrived.

I think that when the birth certificate for Ruby (the spouse / partner of Mr. Gordon and mother of the Gordon children) arrives we will find that she is Ruby Georgina Constance Carash or Sheffield.


Personally and it is only my opinion, I think that Henry, the Civil Engineer, used the name Carash as an alias.

I too, have been unable to find any likely match for him on any census records having looked for a Henry with that occupation in either Wandsworth or Croyden in 1891 or 1901.

I don't see Cedric in the 1911 census either!

The strange thing is that I can't even find them using forenames only!

Usually, that does turn up name shifters!


but these don't show up on any records ..... whether censuses, births, marriages, etc etc


I did find Cedric's death, in 1931, and then his wife's death .......... still as Carash.

But that's it!



sylvia

Yes, that's what I tried Sylvia with absolutely no success apart from finding Cedric as a Sheffield in 1901. But where is Ruby (b. 1895) or Emma in 1901. They just don't want to be found!!!

One possibility might be, if the father(s) really were Civil Engineers, that they might be living overseas while father works on a job.



but then, they SHOULD show up on the lists of passengers returning to the UK at some point before they get married.




sylvia

The mystery continues with this one..cant wait to crack it and get to the bottom of it just want the certificates to come as quick as now

Thanks for the continued checking though thats what i am still trying to do but think a break is in order

xx

Yes, I think you are right Lucy - a break is called for or I won't be able to sleep for thinking of this one tonight! I do hope you will let us know when the certificates arrive as I am sure that we are all curious now.

just as a parting (for now) shot there is a birth that I am wondering if it might be Cedric but the surname is Pusey-Keith........... and I can't see him in 1901 but can in 1911. Anyone have any thoughts on that man?

I think he must be this one:

1901 census transcription details for: Fridenheim, Mulgrove Road, Croydon
RG number: RG13 Piece: 639 Folio: 57 Page: 52

Reg. District: Croydon Sub District: Croydon
KEITH, Alfred Pusey Head Married M 41 1860 Artist Music
Carshalton
Surrey
KEITH, Katie S Wife Married F 46 1855
Croydon
Surrey
KEITH, Alfred M Son Single M 14 1887
Croydon
Surrey
KEITH, Caroline Daughter Single F 13 1888
Croydon
Surrey
KEITH, Cedric Son Single M 7 1894
Croydon
Surrey
MAITLAND, Sophia Aunt Single F 86 1815 Living On Own Means
Walworth
Surrey
PIPER, Charlotte Servant Single F 46 1855 Cook Domestic
Croydon
Surrey
JACKSON, Rose Servant Single F 20 1881 House Maid Domestic
Croydon
Surrey


He seems to go off to Africa with much toing and froing.

I'm pretty sure we can leave him in peace!

Maureen

The thread above just to check are we taking cedric out of the equation for the moment ?I will come back as soon as I get those certificates really want to see what they say so I can look tgrough the thread and pick out bits that are correct and go from there wish I ordered them piority nw they will be despatched Thursday fingers crossed they are here by the weekend xxx

NO

but it seems that the Cedric Pusey-Keith that rootgatherer found and wondered if it might be another name for Cedric Thomas Joseph has been proved wrong by Maureen.


so Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash is still on the boards.



sylvia

hI

Please could someone explain who this thomas joesph carsh is and how he is realted

Many Thanks

we don't know!

............ apart from the name Carash, which you must admit is unusual enough to think that people with that name must be related at some point .............. although this may be way way back.


he's just part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.



You also have to understand that we helpers often work in tandem, as we have been doing on here ...... especially with a tough problem.

One of the helpers might find a mention of something on some site that intrigues them and makes them think there might be a connection ......... and they then post that on the thread in the hope that one or more of the other helpers may be able to see or find the connection, or shoot down the theory.

That's what has happened on this thread. For example, on the first page, I found that reference to Micklewright Carash on a baptismal certificate. On this page, Rootgatherer wondered about Cedric Pusey-Keith. And, of course Thomas Joseph Carash and Cedric Thomas Joseph Carash.


It may be, and probably is, confusing to you ........... but such interactions often lead to solving problems.

All I can say at the moment, is .............. please don't take everything that we post as cut and dried, as we try to solve a seemingly unsolveable problem, amid a host of seemingly small hints of appearances by the people of interest ...... but who appear and disappear with great abandon!


I'm certain that you will eventually see a post headed "EUREKA" or "BINGO" ..... as the case is cracked wide open :-D



sylvia

thanks for that i think the certfiicates are the main key to answering lots of questions i will post alll the deatils when i recieve them and hopefully it will be EUREKA or BINGO

:)

Great!!


I look forward to seeing those details



sylvia
xx

Hi all,

I ahve recieved 2 of my certificates today my nans birth certificate from scotland and her mums certificate.

There is a lot of information on them, so here it is:

Enie D N forder (my Nan)
Born 30th May 1942 in ellow aberdeen
Mother Ruby Georgina Gordon (Carash Maiden Name)
Father John James Forder RAF based in Peterhead
Parents married 17th December 1939 Camberwell
Lived 83 Hope Street Peterhead


Ruby Georgian Gordon (My nans mum)
Born 18th August 1914 in Brixton borogh Lambeth
Mother Ruby Dorothy Gordon formally Carash
Father Dudley Gordon, Consulting Engineer
Lived at 147 Dulwich Road think kerne Hill, Brixton
No marriage mentioned but mother and father have the same name
Birth was registered on 9th October a lot later but there was a war on so properly the reason
Ruby Georgina Gordon had a brother Dudley born one year before her in 1913, so he must have took his father first name

There is no mention of a marriage but on the birth certifiacte it does not state anywhere the marriage should be mentioned nor does it ask for the parents age....

So now trying to find a record of Dudley, and try and go back one more generation to Ruby Dorothy Gordon formally Carash and her partner Dudley

Also mel has sent me an e-mail with a marriage certificate of someone we think could be releated here is the information

April 15th 1906
St matthews Church, Brixton
Emma Georgina Carash aged 38 widower
married
William Henry Garner aged 64 Widower
Profession of William Pattern Maker
Father of Emma is John Sheffield profession Poulter
Father of Henry William Garner, at time of marriage dead
lived 23 Ballath Road, London

Emma would have been born in 1868 an William in 1842

Emma must have been previosly married and must have been a Carash as she does not give her fathers name as her maiden name she uses carash

Now need to link all these women and work out all this information i am waiting for one more certificate which is Ruby and John Forders marriage certifiacte, then i will get more as and when i need to make sure i am following the right family now time for a night of investigating

xxxxx

Flick and Rootgatherer posted the information on that marriage between Emma Gordon nee Carash and William Garner on the first page of this thread

Marriages Jun 1906 (>99%)

Carash Emma Georgina Lambeth 1d 455
GARNER William Henry Lambeth 1d 455

But, no birth reg'n for Emma on freebmd....and no marriage for an Emma G to surname Gordon


and then Rootgatherer found the information:-

The marriage that Flick posted.

William Henry Garner, 64, Widower, Pattern Maker, 23 Ballater Road Acre Lane, f. William Garner dec.
Emma Carash, 38, Widow,23 Ballater Rd., f. Joseph Sheffield, Poulterer

Witnesses Joseph Sheffield and Jane Sophia Edwards



followed by Emma's next marriage:-

Marriages Dec 1924 (>99%)

Caplin Henry Garner Camberwell 1d 1635
GARNER Emma G Caplin Camberwell 1d 1635



sylvia

I've just checked that marriage certificate for Emma Georgina Carash .... it's on ancestry, although her name is mis-spelled Carasl ................ I've sent in a name change


Joseph Sheffield was a Poulterer


There is actually a notation in the margin of the page.

Both Willaim and Emma were initially shown as Bachelor and Spinster respectively, and the those were crossed out and replaced with Widower and Widow.

The notation says:- altered by A.J.(surname hard to decipher) 17 April 06

Presumably someone noticed the wrong marital status, and the Parish Clerk or someone made the alteration in the Register.




sylvia

I did see that at the left hand side of the marriage certificate but did not know what the handwritting said so thanks for that i could see that it was crossed out but could not make out what it said underneath

I am having trouble linking Emma to Ruby Dorothy trying to find Ruby Dorpthys mum and Dad now but finding it very hard but the certficates have given alot of concrete information that i can know work on

Any suggestions how i can link Ruby Dorothy to Emma?